I'm soliciting input from owners of LA built Camaros. My 1969 Z/28 (March) has the original leaf springs which are painted black (satin) and not partially but complete on both sides. I've been in contact with other LA built Camaro owners (1st Gen.) and they report the same thing. I believe that John Mello in a previous post noted that the gas tank with some over spray on the rear springs were found to be black also. Looking forward to any input.
Thank you,
Dan
Not only the springs and fuel tank, tailpipes also. A bud had an April-built survivor VN Z/28 with original painted tail pipes.
The photo is from the Petersen publishing archives. The car was built at VN September 30, 1968, and featured in the January 1969 issue of Hot Rod.
Of the cars I have seen in person, the LA plant was a lot more liberal with paint. They have paint in some areas that Norwood cars do not. And that seemed to have provided better protection for longevity.
Thank you to both of you for your input. It's been a journey learning about the differences of how LA built Camaros as opposed to Norwood. The black paint on the rear leaf springs has baffled me for years. With far fewer Camaros built at LA, I'm sure I will run into more items that are LA specific.
Thank you,
Dan
If there isn't one already I'd like to see more info or a thread on the known differences between the Norwood and Van Nuys built Camaros.
^^ Right on a Throw Down LA -vs- Nar'wood
Sorry Us West Coasties are in the Minority' 75/25 split or so.
Hole Piercing to Bolt Directions and More ?
I think that's a great idea! We would probably need to start a new post (blog) and this might be the first entry. Maybe Kurt could help us set something up.
Dan
Jack assembly, trunk spatter paint, foam pads under cowl vent grille, motor mount bracket fastener position. All VN VIN tags seem to be black. Through the end of October 1968, Norwood tags were color-coordinated. Some VN Z/28s w/o vinyl top have the shorter rear stripes. Haven't seen a VN build with sound deadener inside the rear quarters.
I'm sure there are others.
Thanks William, That sure is a good start.
Thank you William, I've learned some new details I was not aware of. I plan to add a few more today and look forward to feedback.
Dan
For 1968, how the striping was done under the spoiler & the fasteners that attach it to the lid.....Joe
On 69 Z/28's built at LA, the stripe color that (in my case is dover white) continues to the edge of the cowl. I've spent mant years observing how this was done. In general, LA cars have a soft edge tape line with no overspray onto the firewall. What I mean by a soft edge tape line is that the stripe termination is not perfect. I'm going to look through my picture collection and post a few examples. Is there anyone out there that has noticed this detail as well?
Dan
I've enclosed a picture of a LA built (Feb. 69) Z/28. If you zoom in you can see the soft tape line of the Dover White stripe at the cowl.
The gas tank and parts of the undercarriage (mainly floor pans and tunnel area) on my car has definitely been undercoated and it appears factory. Exhaust has been changed. VN 5A car.
Where was the selling dealership?
Dan
Fletcher Jones Chevrolet in Westminster, California on July 29th, 1969. Keep posting them pictures. Mine is headed to the paint shop in the coming months. Are the wiper arms painted black in the cowl area? Is there white over spray on the firewall?
Wiper arms were added after the cowl was painted, so should not have cowl paint on them.
Quote from: hugrz28 on January 09, 2025, 12:21:47 AM
My 1969 Z/28 (March) has the original leaf springs which are painted black (satin) and not partially but complete on both sides.
This does not sound factory. Springs would probably have been from the same supplier as NOR = I've never heard it mentioned before. Paint was sprayed up for gas tank black out. See pics here. http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml#final
Thank you for your post Kurt as bare rear leaf springs is what I have generally observed too. I'm now turning a corner which does not suggest black paint was used only on LA Built Camaro's but also on many other GM Product lines. General Spring was the main manufacture, supplier to GM starting in the mid-sixties. I've traversed through a few websites relating to first gen. Camaro's and Firebird's and also second gen Camaro's. There have been posts on each of the sites discussing the black paint on rear leaf springs and how to duplicate it when restoring them.
So here's my theory. Black paint was used to prevent rust during transportation and storage at GM Plants and it's longevity was probably limited. I'm guessing that they weren't even cleaned (prepped) prior to paint. With that in mind, I'm guessing the paint had a very short life span. Unfortunately without having a process spec. from either General Spring or GM the black paint found on some springs may be relegated to myth.
My car is an LA built 1969 Z/28 with an assembly date of 03 B and spent most of its life in Southern CA. When I acquired the car in the early eighties there was virtually no rust anywhere on the car. As mentioned in my initial post, my springs are coated in a black paint (utility type) on both sides from end to end. As best I can tell there's no black between spring leafs which suggests they were painted assembled.
The journey continues and I look forward to hearing more input from members.
I have an 02A built VanNuys Z28 with 77,000 miles that is very original, was sold new at Washburn Chev in Santa Barbara and lived pretty much all its life in California or Colorado not exposed to harsh elements.. The original rear leaf springs appear to be natural steel. I dont see any gas tank blackout unless that was a 67-68 thing.
My gas tank is the original and had the build sheet on top of it. It also looks like a brand new tank but its definately the original and is stamped 25 69 with the backwards 5. Car still retains its original factory paint hood and deck striping.
Previous owner changed out the original hood for a cowl induction hood but the stripes on the cowl panel and front upper valance are original.
Neither of my 2 Van Nuys 69's had undercoating on the floor pans/tunnel area. Only in the rear wheel wells.
Quote from: hugrz28 on January 15, 2025, 06:54:32 PM
Black paint was used to prevent rust during transportation and storage at GM Plants and it's longevity was probably limited
This was not a big concern back then. The foundries would store the bare blocks outside in the weather...
My block didn't set very long. 05A car with a 0010 block with a D179 cast date and a 0421DZ stamp with a matching number 9D02 trans. with a 0422 BU rearend. 531046 serial number. I have the chassis broadcast sheet(good shape since the car was stored in 1984) from the gas tank with a production date of 06/30. My car was part of the VN strike. My car has been undercoated as I stated (including the gas tank) but I don't know when. Its more than just black paint. Even on the gas tank.
What would be a good date for a master cylinder and booster for my car? April? May? or June?
Date - probably April, they weren't getting new shipments.
Quote from: HOT3O2 on January 09, 2025, 04:01:46 PM
If there isn't one already I'd like to see more info or a thread on the known differences between the Norwood and Van Nuys built Camaros.
I asked similar questions last year - here's the thread
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=20937.msg190599#msg190599
Thank you HansL for posting the link. Again William points out several things that were unique to an LA build. I found this old post "van nuys firewall markings"; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14307.0
In the body of the post, firstgenaddict has a post showing an early 1 owner unrestored 69 Z28. In that picture, it clearly shows how the stripe masking was done (soft edge at cowl, firewall intersection). That too has been my observation looking at 69Z28's built at LA.
HansL I will be looking through some of my old pictures and try to find other details unique to LA builds. I've sure enjoyed the responses to the original post and look forward to future ones.
Dan
This came to Mind.
1968; UPC 12 /A9 (SH 156)
LOS LA Builds did not follow the routing of PC # 9 to the outside of the inner.
It has been my observation that LOS ran the harness under a pair of plastic straps across the engine side of the inner fender, driver side.
-Comments?
Jim
Hans L did you check all three motor mount bolts on your car? My top two bolts are coming up, but the bottom bolt is going down on mine.
Quote from: hugger69z28rs on January 29, 2025, 07:22:00 PM
Hans L did you check all three motor mount bolts on your car? My top two bolts are coming up, but the bottom bolt is going down on mine.
Here's a pic. Sorry, I couldn't find a clear picture before clean-up. But yes, same as yours - top two up; bottom one down.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/aa505d10-0ec5-4419-969e-f4b240264f62/9cba22dc-f3a6-4530-8ab3-389d9bf28119.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/aa505d10-0ec5-4419-969e-f4b240264f62/9cba22dc-f3a6-4530-8ab3-389d9bf28119.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds)
I was at a local car show a week ago and spotted a 1969 Camaro. Taking a closer look, it was 10E (Oct. 68) LA built Camaro. Looked between the rear quarter panel and rear tire and found remnants of black paint on the gas tank. There was also black paint on the rear springs. Just another observation of LA built Camaro's.
Dan
Ran across this picture, no other info about it.
Quote from: Hans L on January 30, 2025, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: hugger69z28rs on January 29, 2025, 07:22:00 PM
Hans L did you check all three motor mount bolts on your car? My top two bolts are coming up, but the bottom bolt is going down on mine.
Here's a pic. Sorry, I couldn't find a clear picture before clean-up. But yes, same as yours - top two up; bottom one down.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/aa505d10-0ec5-4419-969e-f4b240264f62/9cba22dc-f3a6-4530-8ab3-389d9bf28119.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/aa505d10-0ec5-4419-969e-f4b240264f62/9cba22dc-f3a6-4530-8ab3-389d9bf28119.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds)
My friend's 02b 69 has 2 up & 1 down. My 02e 68 & another have all 3 nuts on top. All LA cars....Joe
My 68 LOS car has all 3 bolts with the nut facing upward.
A past discussion on LOS spring and tank factory paint: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=11984.15
I have a few pictures of my 67 LOS survivor in that thread.
Below is a picture from a past discussion of the same car w/396 engine mount bolts facing upwards. My 67 NOR car has them facing downwards.
Mike
Quote from: hugger69z28rs on January 12, 2025, 02:40:23 PM
The gas tank and parts of the undercarriage (mainly floor pans and tunnel area) on my car has definitely been undercoated and it appears factory. Exhaust has been changed. VN 5A car.
Pulled my documentation out this week looking for a reason the inner door sticker had been removed on my driver's door. I have an original order form for a LH door panel, so it was replaced under warranty for some reason. Meanwhile I came across a receipt from the original dealership dated Nov 4, 1969, stating under seal the car for a cost of $11.00. I just recently had the under coating removed via dry ice blasting. It revealed the rear inner fenders was painted the body color (I assume this was later undercoated at the factory) and there is also body color over spray on the floor pans under the car. The tunnel area was painted black over a brown looking primer. This explains why my car had so much undercoating.