Anybody know this car or this dealer?

[sixt9x33rs]

I have a buddy that is looking at this car and don't want him to get burned. He is new to the hobby and just starting to get educated on CRG and the other helpful sites.

Does anyone know anything about this car? The tag seems to be ok but would like other opinions. When I see the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker my suspensions always increase. I have asked the seller if the tranny and rearend are original to the car and have asked to see the stampings, but have not gotten them yet. He says early next week he will get them to me.

Thanks for the help,

Lawrence
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180928273648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648#

[69pace]

I think I have seen his videos before but can't remember what I really thought of them. If it was negative I would remember that.
It is a nice Z11 but has a few things to correct. Just a few notes on the video and photos:
Video:
Cowl rubber seal is on backwards - easy to correct
Wrong size air cleaner filter - using a 2 inch low boy needs the correct height to raise the dome.
Caution Fan sticker - needs to be removed 

Nice test drive segment showing the smoothness of the design in city driving and the ease she assumes the role of highway player.
The zero to 100 road test was a surprise, as not many salesmen would stand on it - let alone video it. The very unscientific evaluation of that run is that she went from zero to 80 in ten seconds, zero to 100 in 16 seconds at WOT.  Very good for a 43 year old drive-train.

Photos:
Service replacement horns - no biggie.
Manual top - Not much you can or should do about that.
Has incorrect GM door stickers - removal should be easy.
Has incorrect Quadrajet heat shield - correct ones always available at Rockauto.com
Strange but the Dizzy vacuum advance can is being pulled off at the manifold in a loop over and around to the strange "k" adapter in the intake with hoses for brakes, transmission, headlights and dizzy, while the non ported bib on the Q-jet is serving the heat stove on the air cleaner the ported bib is plugged. I don't know but if it doesn't leak leave it - manifold is a better tune then the ported factory design in MHO.
Non original exhaust system, but it is in great shape and sound correct.

Okay guys did I miss anything?  I sure I did, but it is a real nice ride, and his feedback is all positive so I would say it is worth a look if your local or even a fly in if your buddies heart is set.

[mickeystoys69RSSS]

A couple of things that I see horns mounted upside down, rear sway bar added as far as I know, no rear sway bars on 69's including pace cars.

[77thor]

Valve covers have rubber oil cap... shouldn't it be a twist-off cap for a 69?

[JKZ27]

Valve covers have rubber oil cap... shouldn't it be a twist-off cap for a 69?

Probably would have steel valve covers with twist cap. Also, something weird about the outer U-bolts or T bolts on the rear axle not protruding through the nuts.

John

[william]

In addition:

Car does not have “correct 14 x 7 Super Sport Rallys” as stated. It is easy to read the tire size in the photo-225/60R15.
The “Endura” bumper fits poorly.
Kick panels butchered for aftermarket speakers, a chore to replace.
Missing woodgrain trim around radio
Missing dash clock, included with special instrumentation.
Has ’67 polished wiper arms; ‘69s were satin.
Headlamp washer nozzles painted white?
Incorrect chrome air cleaner lid; should be black. Wing nut and carb stud also incorrect. Rocker covers also incorrect; should be plain production covers painted orange.
Aftermarket ignition system.
Service replacement master cylinder
Missing the RH exhaust manifold pre-heat chamber and tube.
He states A/C and radio inop. Engine correct but NOT original.

Other than the engine, all relatively minor stuff.

My number #1 concerns with the car would be the front convertible weight canisters AND most importantly, the A/C convertible only front fender baffles. They are on page B3 of section C60 of the ’69 Camaro AIM. If those are missing, you may never find them.

Upside: Great body and paint, fits together well. Interior looks nice and may be original. Is nicely optioned. Good or bad the chassis has not been detailed. But it looks very clean and original, no signs of rust. My opinion, with a bit more work it would auction for as much or more than the BIN. Z11 average is around $60k for small block cars. Very well done ad. Does list the problems he knows of.

[sixt9x33rs]

Guys thanks so much that is all great feedback. I will let y'all know about the tranny and rear end when I here back from him.

William thanks for the heads up on the fender baffles. Never heard of them will look that up.

Since the clock is missing I guess it is safe to assume the console gauges were added.

[69pace]

Yes a common tell-tale sign. Most folk forget that console gauges included the clock.
Tach could be gotten without console gauges - and placed fuel gauge in the position.
Adding gauges and tach does not decrease the value as long as its done right. You can add the clock and harness for a note or two so no biggie.

The bright air-cleaner was L48 option before 69 but not SS350 for 69. Think it still was on SS396, and maybe on COPO units in 69?
The valve covers look like vettes, Z28's were dull in 69 right? SS350 should be Chevrolet Orange and a proud made by Tonawanda or Flint sticker on the pass side.

If you are not looking for a numbers matching show car, this would be a very nice restored/massaged 69. I have original lacquer paint on mine but really like the clear coat job on this one.

The radio parts are easy to fix, and the kick panels can stay as is if your putting in a radio, verts sucked for any original speaker solutions, the rear cardboard stuff just didn't cut it with the top down and whats the point of owning a vert with the top up all the time, just as useless as A/C IMHO. Using a dual stereo center replacement and the kicks are viable solutions to tunes. New reproduction radios will allow you to retain the original look and feel but use your iPod.

Will be interesting to see the numbers when you get them.
 

[sdkar]

I agree with above.  Being a pace car owner myself for over 12 years, I have come to know these cars and have looked at so many of them, I have a decent idea of what is out there.  Overall, this car has some minor issues, but nothing that can not be fixed relatively easy.  Each by themselves are small, but all of them together, will add up in money and time to remedy.   The biggest thing in my opinion is the non-original engine.  But then again, very few pace cars still have their original motor.  Indy pace cars are highly optioned Camaros, but I don't consider this pace car to be highly optioned as far as pace cars go.  This cars only real claim to fame as far as options are concerned, is the AC. 

Overall, a very nice looking car and appears to be quite solid.  It is in better condition than most Indy Pace Cars I have seen for sale in quite a while.  The asking price does seem to be fair, but I would certainly negotiate.  I have owned dozens of old muscle cars and I have NEVER paid the asking price. 

As for the seller, I would say he appears to be honest (which is important).  He has provided lots of photos and has tried to describe the car as best as he can.  In fact, this is probably one of the most comprehensive listings I have seen for a 69 Camaro.  I would feel comfortable in dealing with this seller, but like buying any car, do your homework, or hire a pro like Jerry MacNeish to inspect and tell you all about this car.

If your buddy wants a pace car, I have certainly seen worse with a higher asking price.  If he is not into doing any heavy work, then this car is not a bad choice.  Best of luck.

   

[srode]

Spare tire mount is in the wrong location in the trunk.  That's odd considering the comments about original trunk originality but guess someone might have replaced it and put it in the wrong location?  Doesn't appear to have the steering to trans lockout linkage but hard to tell from the pictures.  It does look like a nice car though.

[69pace]

Maybe it was a space saver spare vehicle or did they use the standard vert location tie down too?

If the test ride was videoed with larger tires on then the car is quicker then I guesstimated right?
Tire size and speedo gears always confuse me.

[Mark]

Nope, bigger tires, less turns per mile, slower speed on speedometer.  All depends on the total outside diamter of the 15" tires vs the original 14" F70's.  The bigger radials are probably not all that different than the original bias plys even though they are on 1" taller wheels, the sidewalls or the tires are going to be shorter.

[william]

Just to follow up a bit, keep in mind when buying a collector car that someday you will want to sell it. Some of the problems noted here may not concern you but they are likely to come up again when you want to sell. For example you can leave the kick panel speakers but I would locate a nice pair of original panels for an A/C car. Nothing wrong with keeping the 15" wheels but watch for 5 dated YJ rally wheels. Most collector cars need a part or two to be more correct.   

[sixt9x33rs]

Spare tire mount is in the wrong location in the trunk.  That's odd considering the comments about original trunk originality but guess someone might have replaced it and put it in the wrong location?  Doesn't appear to have the steering to trans lockout linkage but hard to tell from the pictures.  It does look like a nice car though.

I noticed that too on second look. My hold down is in a different location on my convertible.

[sixt9x33rs]

Just to follow up a bit, keep in mind when buying a collector car that someday you will want to sell it. Some of the problems noted here may not concern you but they are likely to come up again when you want to sell. For example you can leave the kick panel speakers but I would locate a nice pair of original panels for an A/C car. Nothing wrong with keeping the 15" wheels but watch for 5 dated YJ rally wheels. Most collector cars need a part or two to be more correct.   

My buddy likes to go the original route so my guess is that he will take time and collect the required pieces to make the car as correct as possible. The Seller mentioned he had the original 14" wheels but did not mention if they were the correct coded wheels.
I have not heard back from him regarding the drivetrain questions.