Camaro Natiionals @ Frederick Fairgrounds 2012

[DavidS]

Hi Dave,
 Thanks for the interesting video. Did you get to see under the cars as well and if so how were the bottoms finished? All uniform black or a bottom with overspray? Colors?

Mike

Mike, There is one lift in the building and my understanding is that returning Legends cars don't have their bottom checked unless there was a problem with it the previous year.  I think it's typical that only first year Legend cars have the bottom checked on the lift.  Bowtie class cars do not go on the lift. 

For that reason, I did not see many cars on the lift.  It seemed to me that for the few Legend Concours cars I did see on the lift, they were uniform black with some overspray.  Someone with more experience than I have would be better suited to answer this judging question though.

[jmcbeth]

Mac B,

Glad you were able to make the show. A 91.6 score is excellent for first year. Personally, I was in awe of the judges and their knowledge. I then had a wonderful time over the next two years carefully fixing items on my list. It's nice to take a weekend, pick something on the list and go to work on it. I'm now done (97.2%) and miss the experience. Maybe I need to start on another one...

[68camaroz28]

I have nothing but the highest respect and praise for the people judging the cars and look forward to having our car reviewed next year. I just wish there was a judging manual/summary of some sort similar to NCRS. For many people it is extremely difficult to have judging questions answered other than at an event and normally judges are so busy time is limited unless its your car being judged. Many questions even here concerning judging guidelines go unanswered. I realize creating a judging manual is monumental but its not insurmountable.
Looking forward to next years show and a new round of Legend Cars to be judged..... Special Thanks to the numerous people and judges that work diligently to put this program together.

[Mike S]

...... I just wish there was a judging manual/summary of some sort similar to NCRS. ......

I'm with you, Chick, for this request too. I found a copy of the NCRS and am using that as a guideline on my current 67 restoration.
It seems easy enough to place a copy of the Camaro judging sheet guidelines on PDF and post it here. Not sure why that doesn't happen. What's the big secret? It can only help a restorer maximize their work efforts and minimize redo's.

Mike

[DavidS]

X3!  Having published guidelines would be wonderful but I'm guessing that the guidelines would be huge due to all the variations that could be seen at the two plants and variations due to some processes being done by hand.  The variations seem huge to me.  I have a Norwood car with a gray primer underbody and another has a Norwood car made 3 months earlier that has a mostly black underbody.

For restoration,  I have been using Jerry's 69 book and his "Appendix E: CORRECT COMPONENT COLOR AND PLATING CHART".

One problem is that things change over the years and what is acceptable one year, might not be acceptable the next year.  A drastic example.....I'm pretty sure that undercarriages could be either black or gray back in the early 90's.

Below is a picture from Camaro Enthusiast May-June 1993. The title of the article is “UnderCarriage Detailing Component Finishes” by Frank Serafine.


Don't make your undercarriage gray though.  Jerry's book (and every restored Concours car I saw at the Nationals) has "30-percent gloss black paint".

[Mike S]

....................
Don't make your undercarriage gray though.  Jerry's book (and every restored Concours car I saw at the Nationals) has "30-percent gloss black paint".

I have researched this topic deeply and have seen so many different original underbody photos. Despite what the book states, if a car has a gray underbody, then so be it. I don't think anyone is in a position to be the final authority on what took place over 40 years ago if empirical evidence clearly shows that there have been variations seen frequently as if often the case when work is done by a manual process. Sure, the majority may have been black but, IMHO, if you have gray sections too then by all means restore it that way instead of what a book states is correct.

Mike

[DavidS]

I hear you Mike.  It's not easy though since my underbody looks like a mish-mash of colors.

I have one pic here that show's a lot of gray:


......but a lot of my other pictures have a lot of black: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/underfloor/?start=all

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to decide what direction to go.

     If I want to do well in the Concours Legends class at the Camaro Nationals I should play by their rules (uniform 30 percent gloss black with some overspray).  

     Otherwise, I should pick a different class and see if I can be allowed to enter (and make it as I believe it was originally).