Ending "Number Matching Crap" has to start at the top!

[IZRSSS]

I read about that car over on SYC. It sold for somewhere ~ 410K. My personal opinion, (as if though it matters) there’s a fool born every minute. I’m proof of that.  But not even this fool would pay that much for a pieced together rendition of what a car once was. It was also sold at B-J. There were two bidders who must have been caught up in the moment, bidding on some hipped up B-J guys narrative ½ way thru the sale, who wanted to strut their $$$ on national TV. Talk about taking the bait hook, line, and sinker! Why can’t that ever happen to me!

Doug – if you totaled your car and the only way to salvage it was to buy a repop body, would you do it? If it were me; heck No! I would simply collect my agreed upon compensation from the insurance company and move on!

[maroman]

Marty, I know my car from new, know most of the 11 owners! I wanted it when it was for sale by owner number 2. The original engine was gone with owner number 4, trans with number 1, rear sometime before number 10. It will have at least new quarters on it. I've now owned it longer then anyone else, but it's still known as owner number 3's car! When I'm finished it will LOOK correct, but never be right number wise. BUT I will never, never have it in a situation where any of that matters. And it will be here when I'm gone for my wife or kids to make up any story they want. A car owner can do anything they want, IMO, except lie about what the car is. If it's rebodied it's NOT the same car.

[lakeholme]

Sooo, the numbers are important for the original reason they were put on cars...
The problem is dishonesty by both commission and omission.

[IZRSSS]

Marty, I know my car from new, know most of the 11 owners! I wanted it when it was for sale by owner number 2. The original engine was gone with owner number 4, trans with number 1, rear sometime before number 10. It will have at least new quarters on it. I've now owned it longer then anyone else, but it's still known as owner number 3's car! When I'm finished it will LOOK correct, but never be right number wise. BUT I will never, never have it in a situation where any of that matters. And it will be here when I'm gone for my wife or kids to make up any story they want. A car owner can do anything they want, IMO, except lie about what the car is. If it's rebodied it's NOT the same car.

There for a moment I thought I was listening to segments of “Broken Trail”.

Seriously, great history on your car! I understand where you’re coming from. There is one car that I’ve been interested in since I was a kid; a ’67 Chevelle. And the only reason I wanted it way back when, was because it used to go up and down our street hauling butt and it sounded soooo dad gum good. Now that I know a little more about this stuff, there’s no question in my mind it’s an L78. It has been sitting in the same place for 30+ years under plastic tarps. I haven’t given up on it yet.
 
Something tells me the engines blown. Quite frankly I wouldn’t care. If I had it, and the motor was blown, I’d toss a crate in it and drive it like the owner did back then. And just have fun for a change. And like you, would never try to pass it off as an original.

[maroman]

Phil it will be painted the original color, look just like the picture I have of it when it was 3 weeks old. It spent the best part of it's life with American five spokes.  Not sure what I'll do with that as I don't like the new ones and don't want to pay the price for old ones. But I'd never restamp the block as it just doesn't interest me. Casting numbers are right, carb and distributor is right.

[lakeholme]

So,when will we see a picture?

[JKZ27]

TECHNICALLY, IF YOU REBODY A CAR, YOU ARE USING GM SHEETMETAL

And if you transfer the serial number tag you are breaking state law if not federal law. In PA. it would require a state issued mu,ber tag with a reconstructed title.

A few years ago at the shop I was working at(Dodge, Chevy dealer), we were working on a Dodge truck that needed the whole dash replaced. And, of course, the VIN is riveted to the dash. We had gotten a replacement dash from a salvage yard and all we had to do was swap the VIN plate. That sounded a bit illegal to me at the time and I declined the job. However, it seems in the case of a Chrysler vehicle, all you have to do is call Chrysler and tell them what you are doing and provide them with the VIN info and they will send you a pair of the little star-shaped rivets. Needless to say, another fella in the shop did the swap and all is good. I know its far from a re-body but that was the first case of "messin with the VIN" that seemed to be just fine by everyone. I wouldn't have had any problem with that job except it wasn't worth risking my livelyhood and more for a short venture into a grey area.

John

[IZRSSS]

$58,100.00 with a day and a half to go (reserve no met).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-Z-28-Camaro-Real-Deal-Code-4L-Super-Rare-302-Amazing-Restoration-MUST-SEE-/160830671961?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2572414c59

[Sauron327]

VIN transfers on vehicles John mentioned above is nothing out of the ordinary and it's perfectly legal. Ask anyone in collision. Truck cabs, which you can buy new, are considered replacement body parts. Follow the procedures as required for a particular state and the tag is transferred to the new part.

[IZRSSS]

That's one law that should be revisited. It shouldn't apply to the collector car community.

[Sauron327]

Collector car has nothing to do with it, nor do the emotions or values one associates with cars. It has to do with a repair. R&R (remove and replace), simple as that. Imagine the breakdown value the insurance industry would have to assign to every collector car's individual part replacement. They are not going to police the hobby to find out who is deceiving a buyer. Car gets smashed, car gets fixed. If you want original parts to fix it, that's your choice. Or just crush it. No one is forcing you to buy it back. Cars that are determind a complete loss are salvage stamped and sold off for parts. That's what you use to repair cars when you buy salvage cars at the auction. Every situation is different. When a repairable car is purchased and fixed it receives a salvage title.

[camaro jock]

Maybe I am late to this post but what does the ebay motors car 1967 z/28 have to do with this post it sounds legit?

[IZRSSS]

Your tugging on Superman's Cape. If it were to be all-in-one somebody somewhere would loose power and possibly face.  

Hm-mm, Superman must have shares in Crate Body Shells.

[IZRSSS]

Maybe I am late to this post but what does the ebay motors car 1967 z/28 have to do with this post it sounds legit?

Please KIM this comment is strictly my opinion and does not reflect anyone else’s, especially CRG’s.

Someone brought attention to the possibility of this car having a complete re-body and the information appears to come from a reliable source. This alone raises several red flags (for me). There is absolutely no way I would even consider purchasing an “Original” First Generation Camaro, Z28 or non Z28, if there was even a hint of a full body replacement (even if there appeared to be a “legitimate” reason for doing so). It is a skeleton that will follow that car from here to eternity and something that will always raise an eyebrow/red flags. Something I just wouldn’t want to deal with.

The other mystery I have issues with, and I’m sure they have their reasons; CRG has yet to acknowledge this car as authentic (and I don’t need to know why). The only way this member would ever make such a significant purchase with regards to any First Gen is if CRG gave it their blessings.

[Mike S]

Please KIM this strictly my opinion and does not reflect anyone else’s opinion, especially CRG’s.

**********
The other mystery I have issues with, and I’m sure they have their reasons; CRG has yet to acknowledge this car as authentic (and I don’t need to know why). The only way this member would ever make such a significant purchase with regards to any First Gen is if CRG gave it their blessings.

Quite possibly there is no way for CRG to say one way or another if it is real or not, especially publicly, and risk the possibility of being wrong and then open to liable. Unless something very obvious stands out that leaves no doubts , right now it's only conjecture, opinions and guesses.

Mike