Correct Fasteners and headmarkings

[IZRSSS]

Update...Green asterisks confirm factory head-marks. In addition...new head-marks added to the list...

[IZRSSS]

Update cont'd...

[IZRSSS]

Update cont'd...

[68camaroz28]

Marty there is some great work going on here but it is becoming quite apparent there are a lot of suppliers, right?
What I'm starting to think is it would be great to start to put part #'s with key componets and determine what the normal mix of suppliers were with a specific bolt. I will try to give the part # on any bolts I give in the future if I can find it.
Just finished rebuilding our M21 and all the side cover bolts are 'sbc' along with the tail-stock to main housing except for one 7/16 'L5'.
The 2 rear trans cushion mount bolts part#9419073 were 'bIs'
While cleaning the Fisher body window guides all the bolts were 'TTL'

[IZRSSS]

Chick – Absolutely Part #S and Fastener locations are critical. However, here are problems I see if we start combining more than one topic/phase under the same heading; Look at how much information has been gathered in such a short period of time for just one phase (Head-Marks). Compound this by including each fastener & part # as they relate to the AIM & I think it will be information overload. But here is my other fear; if we don't act now to collect the data you've mentioned we might not get this opportunity again. Folks like you, Mike, Dave, George, Hans and others will simply install all of the fasteners back onto their vehicles and the data will be lost.
 
Here is my suggestion; I am no good at multitasking, just ask my wife…I focus on one topic, try to do it well and move onto the next. I need someone to take the bull by the horns and head-up the next two phases of this study; Fastener Part #'S & dimensions & Fastener Part #'S as they correspond to the AIM. And we also need to get a handle on which fasteners went with which years (67,68,69). IMHO both of which are much more complicated than what we're doing here. I'm not quite sure how these two topics should proceed but I do know they should be started in conjunction with each other, and there has to be a plan of attack so order is maintained.
 
Tough call and I sure could use some advice…your thoughts or anyone else?

BTW, thanks for the pics. I'll add them to the list...
 

[IZRSSS]

Mike - can I get a couple more pics of your "GL" fastener? I would like to include it in our list of confirmed fasteners but the "hook/barb" raises a question. It could be one of the variations John mentioned and maybe a clearer pic will confirm my suspicions.

Thanks

[69Z28-RS]

Marty (IZRRSS) above wrote (in part):  "Here is my suggestion; I am no good at multitasking, just ask my wife…I focus on one topic, try to do it well and move onto the next. I need someone to take the bull by the horns and head-up the next two phases of this study; Fastener Part #'S & dimensions & Fastener Part #'S as they correspond to the AIM. And we also need to get a handle on which fasteners went with which years (67,68,69). IMHO both of which are much more complicated than what we're doing here. "

Unless GM/auto industry has their own policies, I would suggest that if the AIM-based PN is the same, then the location doesn't matter..  The PN itself should reflect 'form, fit, and function', and seldom does anything else matter.   IF the same PN is referenced in multiple locations of the AIM (and I don't think yr matters), then the part is the same!

Bottom line:  If we can associate the AIM PN correctly with the various head markings, then I think the job is done.   Am I right ?  or  ?

[Petes L48]

Those TTL appear to be more Camcar Div. of Textron, Tap-Tite Products, related to the #37 above.  What's odd is the one on the left has that flag-in-the-wind looking logo below, which is Elco Industries.

[IZRSSS]

Russ - Thanks again! Your knowledge with regards to these companies is impressive. Do you mind sharing where your knowledge comes from? Is there reference material you can recommend? Hope you don't mind me picking your brain.  

[NoYenko]

Marty, I looked at the screw with the circles again with an eye loop. I can see no mark in the center but there are 7-8 circles and more faint towards the center.
I have the 2 bolts from the steering arms to the spindle and the large top spindle bolt to post.
George.

[Steve Shauger]

Great work so far but has been stated, there are a myriad of variable such as:

*Plant car was built. I would only use known examples (specific car) rather than hardware found in a box from old projects)
*Year & month of vehicle build
*Bolt dimensions: length , thread and type of end
*Finish used: such as zinc, phosphate
*Type of washer,  (if any) Are they serrated, and dimension
*Hex size and if ridged
*Grade
*Where have they been found/used: such as fender, valance etc.

Above are just a few variable that may help define typical usage and bolt specifications.

[IZRSSS]

Marty, I looked at the screw with the circles again with an eye loop. I can see no mark in the center but there are 7-8 circles and more faint towards the center.
I have the 2 bolts from the steering arms to the spindle and the large top spindle bolt to post.
George.

George - I posted a side-by-side of two of your fasteners. The rings are evident on both and look more like the result of tooling. What do you think? If you agree then I'm going to have to figure out some sort of design...any suggestions? I thought about just a blank but there is another one that we've identified as a "bubble". What do you think about just a copy-paste?

I'll add the new ones to the list...thanks again!

[IZRSSS]

Great work so far but has been stated, there are a myriad of variable such as:

*Plant car was built. I would only use known examples (specific car) rather than hardware found in a box from old projects)
*Year & month of vehicle build
*Bolt dimensions: length , thread and type of end
*Finish used: such as zinc, phosphate
*Type of washer,  (if any) Are they serrated, and dimension
*Hex size and if ridged
*Grade
*Where have they been found/used: such as fender, valance etc.

Above are just a few variable that may help define typical usage and bolt specifications.

Steve - This is obviously a tall order but there isn’t a better resource than right here to get it done! The guys that have contributed so far have been a wealth of information and we both know they are only the tip of the ice berg. With their continued support and the support of others I know we can make this happen.

I am going to see what I can do to coax another member into this discussion/fact finding mission…Nick (aka Dusk Blue Z). He is a whiz at numbers, statistics, etc. and was a huge help in another thread; Economic Expert. I think he can refine the Q&A’s so that the stats make sense in the end. If there is anything else he needs in addition to what you’ve listed I am sure he will let us know.
 
Thanks for joining the discussion!

[Petes L48]

Russ - Thanks again! Your knowledge with regards to these companies is impressive. Do you mind sharing where your knowledge comes from? Is there reference material you can recommend? Hope you don't mind me picking your brain. 

I've been looking at DOD Handbook "Listing of Fastener Manufacturer's Identification Symbols" MIL-HNBK-57F (IS), Revision F, 21 June 2011.  The Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) is responsible for the publication.

I think someone eluded to it here on an earlier post.  A decent start but by no means complete.  That's why I haven't commented on all the markings.  Also some of the logos are hand drawn, plus the ones with just a letter marking are difficult to determine from just a drawing.  A, D, C and E seem to be popular.  The first version came out in Sept 1989, and the manufacturers have to submit their info for inclusion.  So it does not have all manufacturers, and apparently any company that went out of business before this date is not in the book, unless there was an earlier data source rolled into that first version.  It also isn't clear if company's are dropped once they go out of business or are permanently retained.  I'd think there has to be a better source out there, but I've not found one.  I've also tried to verify markings from the handbook by going to the manufacturers' websites, but very few show markings on their sites. 

 

[68camaroz28]

Dave got me thinking that he is on to something! He mentioned and showed a #9420415 with the 'D' logo and how it was used in many locations. Maybe what might be of help is to take this in smaller junks so it does not become so large we end up abandoning what can and will be an excellent exercise. I just spent time documenting all the front end screws called out in the 68 AIM. One screw jumps out at you if for anything the amount of locations and pure numbers. Screw # 9780422! 68 AIM pages include 137, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 149, & 153.
What is it used for? -Header panel to fender  -Inner fender to fender  -Support brace from fender to rad. support
Valance to fender extension  -Hood catch support  -Fan shroud brkt to rad. support  -Battery Tray  -Headlight housing
If members check cars and report back we can document the different head markings (suppliers) Marty has graciously put together. Example: Marty had each head marking numbered so with information from members we could at least have a feel for what were the predominant suppliers used for a specific part #. Just a thought!