Engine value to 1968 Z28 owner

[Misse]

You guys have been awesome!  Thank you so much for your help!  Mopar I will try and make arrangements with the seller for the 11th and I will let you know what he says.  That is so nice of you to offer and I really appreciate it!  I'm going to post the e-mail I sent the seller tonight.  I hope I have covered what I should.  If he comes through and sends me the pictures I will post them to get your opinions.  Thanks Again!

I have some questions for you regarding the engine and parts.  Please correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that you did the restoration of this car?  If so, do you have any documentation and/or receipts on the restoration of the car and/or engine?  Why was the original engine removed from the car and replaced with the 350?  Is the original 302 engine complete with starter, alternator, intake, carburetor, distributor, exhaust manifolds, etc.?  Has it been rebuilt and in ready to run condition?  If so, who rebuilt it and is there a spec sheet?   If it is not rebuilt is it re-buildable?  When was the last time that it was running?  If possible, I would like pictures of the engine as it sits, as well as pictures of the engine block’s casting#, date code, partial VIN#, and engine code.  I would also like some basic pictures and a list of what parts I would be buying as part of this package.  If you would also take pictures of the rally wheels and the code# under trim ring I would appreciate it.  I thank you for your time.  I am just trying to do my homework.

[mopar346]

Excellent, make sure you have a digital camera and it at all possible a video camera, that way if we forget something or have a question later we can refer to the photo and video. I have done this when documenting paint lines an colors on survivors (Mopars pof course) and it is very helpful. I will state a post and like these guys educate us as to everything we need to consider and we will be prepared as much as possible. This will be fun, I actually have a post asking for some Camaro related ideas for our vacation so you are helping me. If possible I am sure my son will want to accompany us, he is 17 and is build a 69 RS. My e-mail is mopar346@yahoo.com if you want to copy me on the e-mails.

[Misse]

You guys have been great!  I wish the seller was as nice as you all.  Read his response and tell me what you think.  I can't believe he is not willing to send any pictures....

"This motor ran fine up until it was removed.  The reason it was removed was to ensure it was preserved as Bill intended to drive the car. The valve adjustment required is due to relieving the valve train for storage. Whomever advised you here would understand why. In the event the car was to be returned to the original condition, it could be done and all value would be saved. With a vehicle of this value, this is a common practice. As far as photos and all other items you mention here, I recommend you bring your consultant and inspect all parts. If they plan on removing trim rings from wheels or disassembling the engine for any reason there will be a non refundable deposit required in the event of any damage to the perfect condition rings and engine assembly. This deposit could be part of the overall price if there was a purchase.

As I mentioned, any and every original part that was on the car is still intact which can be returned to the vehicle. There are several boxes. "


I can get over his condensendingness and treating me like a dumb girl but I just don't get it... if he had to list the engine and parts on the internet as he stated he was going to do he would have to take pictures to do that.

Mopar... thanks again, I'd be glad to have your son along!  I'm sure I could learn a lot from both of you     It looks like actually going to his house is the only way I am going to be able to verify anything.

[mopar346]

He sure is acting like a tool. What he says about protecting the original is somewhat common and relieving the valve spring pressure while sitting is also a common practice. If he wants 12k he need to be willing to remove the valve covers and trim rings, we will just have to play that when we get there. Hopefully he will reasonable in person, if you can get a name maybe I can do some research on him and find out if we have a common acquaintance that can deal with him or at least give us some insight on him. I still say you need a list of parts, I don't believe even a complete engine assembly and wheels are worth anywhere near 12k. Small stuff does add up but..... I started a thread on what we need to look at and verify. If you could list your vehicle build date on the thread so I can get some casting date ranges for the parts that would have typical been on it.

[sam]

I agree with you Mopar. $12,000 is steep even for the orignal car. If I needed a DZ 302 for my car, and it was not original to my car why would I pay 12,000 for the wrong motor? No matter what, it still would be the wrong motor for my car. Maybe $5,000 complete if all matching for the original car the motor was from. I don't understand why the owner that did the resto di not want the motor and original parts back. I guess it was a trade off for a stronger running 350 and some newer, upgraded parts?

[tom]

IN my opinion, all that stuff should have been included, or at least offered with the car when you bought it. This sounds like someone just trying to milk you for money by witholding part of the car and offering to sell you the rest of it after the original sale, but your going to be nickel and dime you for every penny they can get from you. If you buy these parts, will you get a call next month about some additional parts they "forgot" they had, but for a few more thousand you can buy them now?   

[maroman]

Mopar, your offer is quite generous. I hope this works out the way it's supposed to. But, as a word of caution, he may be reading this as we are. You may want to discuss strategy off line.

[IZRSSS]

Both Tom & Doug have given you good sound advise!

This is certainly none of my business but the price you paid for the car should be revealed to someone (in private) who knows (from this site) as to what a numbers matching 68 Z sells for. The only information I can pick up from this thread is that you bought the car at a steal. If the initial price was as low as one would assume & the seller is by chance not the evil person we are making him out to be, who knows...maybe 12K is a good place to start.

On the other side of the coin...if this individual states the "Original Block" was removed then who knows what other components there are that he helped himself to. And, by the time its all said and done you've dug yourself an even deeper hole... I think Chick's reply 52 is right on the mark.

First and formost, get the seller to send you a pic of the engine stamp/pad and go from there. This in itself could save you a tremendous amount of time and energy.

BTW...Welcome!

[mopar346]

Mopar, your offer is quite generous. I hope this works out the way it's supposed to. But, as a word of caution, he may be reading this as we are. You may want to discuss strategy off line.

No doubt!

[KurtS]

I just split this topic into its own thread.

What matters is getting a pic of the engine pad to make sure it's real.  Jerry, Ed, or I should be able to verify it.
And then inventorying what is there: carb, alt, starter, fan, etc.

I'd make the first trip just an inspection trip unless you know it's real enough to buy it.

Ouch on the $$. How long has it been sitting?

Misse, did you buy it from Dave in MI?

[Misse]

Hi all and thanks again for all your advice, knowledge, and the welcome!  Especially to Mopar, you have really gone the extra mile and I really appreciate it!  To answer some questions here... the person I bought the car from and the person trying to sell me the parts are two different people but they are good friends.  I have asked the seller of the engine and parts for pictures and he refuses to send anything.  Even though when he first contacted me he informed me that he was about to put all items on the internet (which I'm sure would require photos).  Also, now he has declined to let me inspect the items in person on the date that Mopar was going to be available

I didn't buy the car from Dave in MI, but the guy I bought the car from did.  I believe he bought and restored the car around 2007.  I have the previous owner Dave's full name and address and I have been searching on the internet for phone number to try and reach him to see if the car was all original when it left his possession.  Kurt do you know this car?  Back when I bought the car, the seller I bought it from, informed me this Dave in MI used to show the car regularly.  The car sits today with a 350 in it and run beautifully and is an all around nice car, however I have always wanted to put it back original.  From what the seller of the engine and parts is telling me the only reason the original engine was removed from the car was to preserve the value of it, so nothing would happen to it and there is nothing wrong with it, however, when I asked if the engine had been rebuilt he didn't answer.  And with his weird behavior I'm not sure I am able to trust anything he says at this point.

[68Zproject]

Trust but verify.  I don't think the price is too bad if the motor is complete.  I've had to spend quite a bit to get dated parts that were missing on mine and you have the 350 that you could sell.

[KurtS]

I saw the car back in 2005. It was restored then - here's a pic of the tag from back then. Looks the same.
I don't have an overall pic of the car though and I didn't record the engine code (which probably means it was not visible i.e. painted over).