XCO build numbers

[My68SS]

Hi, just wondering how many fully built non-Canadian xco 68 Camaro's rolled off the production line? even an estimate.

[Rich]

If you count Yutivo, Carcacas, and Belgium (the three we know about), I would guess a total of at least 1000, but probably no more than 2000 per year.

[My68SS]

Hi Rich, so if we take out those 3 factories, which according to 'how many' in the general page on crg were ckd or skd kits, not fully US assembled and without US vin and trim tag, then the number of non-canadian fully built xco's with US vin and trim tag must have been quite small.

I guess I should put my hand up here and explain why I'm interested in this topic. I'm actually in Australia and my 68 L34 is one of those fully built non-canadian xco's.
I have the xco tag that came with the car, it quotes the xco number, the cars vin number and the destination as General Motors, Sydney.
It's a stamped tag with the details in hand written pen. I found it on the floor pan under the LH front carpet [decades ago now!  ]
This car may be one of only a handful that were fully built xco's to Australia. I'm assuming it must have been a fully built xco as it has a US vin and trim tag.

I can post a pic of the xco tag if your interested.

[My68SS]

Here's a pic of the xco tag I found in the car for those interested. The serial matches the car's vin.

[Rich]

IIRC, the only fully-built ones we've seen were SS models (perhaps Z28, but I can't recall one).  It was the more base models that were shipped in kits.

[KurtS]

Interesting. I had heard that no Camaros were export downunder, but this sure disproves that!

I'd be interested in some more data from your car whenever you get a chance. Email is fine.

Never seen one of those tags before...

Thanks!

[My68SS]

Sorry for the delay here. Will get up a full list and pics soon.
The short specs are:
Ermine white coupe
L34 [Tonawanda]
T400
12 bolt posi 3.55
Power steer, brakes, windows
Deluxe [custom?]  interior
Style trim exterior
Folding rear seat
Vigilite

[BlackoutSteve]

Any idea of the whereabouts of that Sydney-bound Camaro today? Is it in a registry somewhere?

Also, I would be fairly sure it was onlly one of a handful to be exported here. Could have been for a GM executive or even a GM test vehicle.
I do know of a 67 that was brought out here, converted to RHD and sold as "new".. in 1971.

Also, weren't there 67 Camaros sold new in Singapore? -only with 6 cylinders?

[My68SS]

Any idea of the whereabouts of that Sydney-bound Camaro today?

My garage - Perth 

Also, weren't there 67 Camaros sold new in Singapore?

CRG have a bit of a report here http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#Where
that indicates other assembly plants outside the US, though doesn't mention Singapore. Philippines is mentioned however.

[BlackoutSteve]

Your garage.. cool!
Was it a Chapple conversion? Do you know the date when it was sold new?

And yes sorry, it was the Philippines I meant.

[My68SS]

Hey BlackoutSteve, sorry for the slow update here, been flat out for a while.
Conversion was done by Bill Buckle Auto's in Sydney, no idea of the original sale date.

[BlackoutSteve]

Thanks for the late reply.. but I only just saw it now!!
Bill Buckle eh? So, what's the conversion like? Does it look good? Handle well? Does it leave room for an engine??

I currently have 2 Chapple subframes in my yard and quite honestly, I think they look bloody horrible! They were considered the best back then, but I think they look like something out of a medi-evil torture chamber!
However, one may get put back into a restored early Australian delivery '69 as it is, and the other I am converting back to LHD. It's the only way I can save the poor thing!


I'm using the jig I made during the (re)conversion of my '69'


To be honest also, I haven't heard great things about the Bill Buckle ones either. Do you have any pics of yours?

[My68SS]

Hi BlackoutSteve, I need to be hit over the head with a piece of 4x2 for not paying attention here!! 
The bill buckle conversion on mine was not too bad, original LH box built into the rail but done much neater, fully welded - no extra bolted on plates and with rolled edges to give more of a 'factory' look.
The handling was good, maybe a bit of bump steer, full lock cornering on concrete parking lots was good, no squealing of tyres fighting each other. Tyre wear was good.
Will post some pics of it when I get the front unbolted a bit more.

I found that because the box is only supported by one wall of the chassis [not the whole box section of the rail] and with minimal room for extra bracing because of the BB, it tended to flex around a bit.
I'm in the process of re-doing the steering conversion on mine using a HQ bendix power box, which has the same pitman shaft spline and bolt pattern as the original Camaro power box. Even the input shafts are the same! [ God bless Bendix!!]
I also have a piece of chassis rail with steering box mounts from a RH drive Impala.

I may yet use a RH drive saginaw box from an Impala for an even closer 'Camaro factory' look, depending on what ratio I can get.
I've also got an original 'like new' hd 1.125" drag link to start afresh with. I'm setting all the steering up as per original on another untouched chassis so I can take measurements and make jigs.
I think Bill Buckle must have had a custom drag link made. It's a bit small in diameter and flexed across the middle as well!

The chassis in the lower set of pics looks good, very neat. What steering box are you using? Do you have enough clearance for a BB to fit?

The jig you've made up is exactly what I had in mind 
Again, I'm sorry for my lack of attention here, I hope to hear from you again.

We should perhaps swap email addresses via PM, or start a new thread on this conversion stuff if CRG don't mind us talking about the best way to cut up a perfectly good Camaro chassis!! 

[BlackoutSteve]

Hey Bob.. Just got your email and thought that I too better pop-in and say hello!

The lower pics in the above post are of my subframe conversion, and I am using a Saginaw 800 series box, also out of an Australian delivery Pontiac. It's an identical mirror copy of the LHD Saginaw boxes (God bless Saginaw! ).

The problem that I can see with using a Holden or Ford Falcon box (which I hear is quite common) or any other, is where exactly to locate it. The Fore/aft, side, up/down and tilt angle can be a bit of guess work. You would want to hope that while the height of the Pitman arm is allowing the drag link to be at the correct height also, the steering column is still able to couple with it too. What is the height of the fitted Pitman arm in relation to the steering input shaft compared to the Saginaw?

With the Saginaw, once the centerline of the subframe is established, the LHD mounting holes are simply transfered across. A reasonable amount of fabrication is required if you want it to look right, but also because the rails are a 1/2" different distance from the chassis centerline. I also used a portion of Australian delvery Pontiac subframe from the formed piece that sits behind the steering box. The jig allowed a rigid foundation and a high level of accuracy in doing the conversion. The idler side was exactly the same process.



Using the RH Saginaw and mounting it that way, I have as much room as any normal LHD Camaro. I too have a big block and the headers aren't such a squeeze. Custom made is mandatory and as for manifolds, I'm not sure. Often LH & RH were different so, only one way to find that out!



I also needed to make up a jig for the draglink. I didn't weld it though, I had Mr Blue (a qualified welder & chassis guru do it) and then had it Xrayed heat treated.. All that cost me $600 but..



The heater box was a lot of fun. Lot's of work, nearly lost a finger!!, but the end result is very convincing.
There is a RHD fiberglass on available down here, but the finish and lack of detail was just not what I wanted. (Good value at $130 though.)



Any details you need to know, just ask me right here or email me.

[Geoff Smith]

Hey Guys - Canberra based here. I am into 1967 - 9  Camaros - I  Have had my car Down Under for about five years now. Mine is still LHD.  I too am VERY interested in Australian Camaros , particularly those delivered new here. Would be keen to get in touch with you guys and chat either on here or via email or phone. Just let me know if your as keen as me. Cheers Geoff Smith