'69 RS Doors Stay Open w/light on or off

[IZRSSS]

I'm the guy that could not get my left door to close all the way.  Now I can't get them to close at all.  They do open just fine and the only way i can get them to close is to disconnect the lines from the check valve.  Forgive my ignorance...I'm about as mechanically inclined as Shaq is shooting free throws!
Can anyone help?

[william]

The headlamp switch activates the vacuum system by means of a slide valve mounted on the switch. The valve is a strip of rubber retained in a metal bracket. The bracket has a small tab that engages the plunger in the switch. Common for the tab to break off leaving the valve inop. This could be the problem.

Be aware that cars with factory gauges used a different headlamp switch. It is easy to dismantle the valve.

[IZRSSS]

Thanks William...I will take a look at it now.  If this is the case will the switch have to be replaced or can it be repaired?

[william]

I believe the standard RS headlamp switch is available. If your car has factory gauges you can swap out the slide valves.

[IZRSSS]

I know you've been waiting for this one...again, don't know beans about this.  Is there an easy way to get to the switch?  I have all kinds of stuff in the way including a speed warning switch and some other

[rich69rs]

The hardest part, potentially in my opinion, is removing the switch knob.  There is a button that you have to press in on the switch body to release the switch knob/shaft and after 40+ yrs it can be a bear to get out if you still have the original.

The following post talks about removing the knob and shaft.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=526.0

Once you have it out of the way, removing the switch body won't be that big of a deal.  The RS headlight switch, as William indicated, is different from the switch used on non RS models in that it has vacuum hose connections routed to it.  As you pull open the switch, the reference vacuum source is cut off from the top of the relay valve (orange line in the attached Word document).  This changes the position of the pilot valve inside of the relay valve, which routes vacuum to the canisters to pull the doors open.  When you close the headlight switch, the reference vacuum signal is returned to the top of the relay valve which repositions the pilot valve inside of the relay valve such that vacuum is routed to the canisters to close the headlights.

Follow the trouble shooting steps and isolate where the problem is.

Good luck.

Richard

[IZRSSS]

Thanks again Richard & William...here's what I found.  I ran a test that I found on a site that Rich gave me.  What I found is that I do not have vacuum applied to the "close" hose going to the vacuum motors.  I verified this by switching the "close"  hose with the "open" hose going to the relay and the doors closed.  All other tests checked out.  Does this narrow it down to the switch or is there a simple solution?  Trying to be optimistic... 

[rich69rs]

You need to ensure that the relay valve (mounted on the top side of the vacuum reservoir, driver side front, inner fender) where all the vacuum hoses connect is funcitoning.  On top of the relay valve, there is a manual slide switch.  With the car running, sliide the switch to the open position - - the doors should open.  Then slide the switch to close - - the doors should close.  If not, the relay valve may be the problem.

You can also check to see that the pilot valve inside the relay valve is free to move.  If you carefully feel under the relay valve, you should feel the stem of the pilot valve protruding.  Carefully try to move the pilot valve stem up and down to be sure it isn't stuck. Don't push hard - the pilot valve is spring loaded against the diaphragm in the top of the relay valve.  If the pilot valve is free, it should move readily.  The pilot valve moves up and down sending the vacuum to the correct hoses to either open or close the doors based on the wheter the reference signal (orange striped line to the top of the relay valve) has vacuum on it (doors closed) or vacuum cut off when the light switch is pulled open (doors open).

The other probelm with the relay valve is that there is a diaphragm in the top of the valve.  A busted diaphragm will make the relay valve inoperatble as well.  You can check the light switch itself by removing the orange striped line to the top of the relay valve and see if you go from vacuum (switch closed) to no vacuum (switch open) with the engine running.  If the vacuum switches on / off with the operation of the light switch, the switch is working.

Good news is that they have now started to supply the relay valve in the aftermarket.  I have not had to use an aftermarket relay valve - still have the original one on mine, so I don't know about the quality.

[IZRSSS]

Huge thank you goes out to Rick & William!  William, you had it right from the start & Rick, you nailed it down tight!  I am amazed at how accurate you guys are with info!  Everything worked on the relay except the orange/red switch line. 

I will try to send pics of the '69.  It is bone stock for the exception of one repaint.  Infact you can see the paint seem in the engine bay where the factory blue is still intact (think thats a word) down to the original a/c lines.  Options include; Pw, Pb, Ps, A/C, AM/FM "blue dot" Sterio, Clock, Tilt, Vigil Lites, Speed Warning, Remote Mirror, Vanity Mirror, Space Saver Spare & original interior, Glass & Vinyl Top.

Point is...if you ever need close-ups of whatever I'll try to send them.  I tried in this post but it kept telling me it was over-loaded.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[william]

You're welcome!

Sounds like a nice car.

[jacmac]

Could some please explain what the RS headlamp switch has to do with factory guages on the console

I believe the standard RS headlamp switch is available. If your car has factory gauges you can swap out the slide valves.

[william]

There were 4 headlamp switches used for '69: std, std w/gauges, RS, RS w/gauges.

The switches used with factory gauges have a much larger rheostat. That's the ceramic block at the front with embedded coiled wire.

[rich69rs]

THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

You welcome - does sound like a nice ride - I look forward to seeing the pics.

Richard

[jacmac]

There were 4 headlamp switches used for '69: std, std w/gauges, RS, RS w/gauges.

The switches used with factory gauges have a much larger rheostat. That's the ceramic block at the front with embedded coiled wire.

I had know idea!! I have a 69 Z10 & installed guages in 1976 everything seemed to work correctly.Im in the process of restoring it now & very close to finishing. Can I use the original switch,it seemed to work fine before?

[william]

I'm no EE but I believe the purpose of the rheostat was to dim the IP/interior lights. It may work but heat up excessively under certain operating conditions. The gauge switch was different for a reason.