67 BB Water Pump Repair Kit

[big iron]

Want to rebuild my 67 E87 BB water pump and I need a repair kit.The pump I have has been rebuilt before so I also need a 4 bolt hub.
Zip has a BB kit but it does not have the hub included in the kit.
Is the shaft size on the BB 5/8"and SB ? the same size?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks.
Bob

[My68SS]

Yes, sb and bb are 5/8". Not sure when 3/4" came in - maybe 69 - or perhaps all sp hi perf bb motors? John and/or Kurt may help with that.
This seller [dakoninc] has kits http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200502129276 which comes with everything including the water bypass connector, though the bearing shaft is stepped 3/4 - 5/8 at the pulley end, not 5/8 the whole length as shown in his auction pic.

I got a kit of him, have posted a pic of the bearing with dimensions in this thread
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=6971.0
The lengths are ok but you have to be carefull. I had to have the bearing housing just proud of the pump snout by about 1/16 [not flush], or the impeller end of the shaft would be up against the back cover.
Also, the 3/4" section is a bit short. With the flange at the right height, it was not fully on the 3/4" section. The flange he supplies has a deeper hole and is slightly concaved around the hole looking at the pulley face, so it gets adequate purchase on the shaft. An original flange would only be half on and inadequate.
Another niggle is that the supplied flange is not exactly flat on the pulley face. I'm going to mount mine on an old 3/4 bearing and true it up in a lathe.

The seal and gaskets are fine, as is the supplied water bypass fitting. The rest is usable but not without it's issues.

There's a bearing company here [AWB Bearings] in Perth, West Australia that has a full length 5/8 bearing [with 3/4" center bearing section] but with the shafts deliberately left long so it can be machined to the required length to suit different applications
I think FAG make the bearing.
They're only $30 AUD and I'm going to get one at some stage, machine it up and try it.
I've measrued one up and it's all exactly right except for the shaft lengths.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of water pump re-building on the net so have been taking pics of my rebuild to post up in a thread.

[big iron]

Ron,
Thanks for the reply.
After taking the back off an A 15 8 pump I had laying around, I can say that your cast impeller 3921839 is correct.
Now, after looking at your bearing assembly I think they sent you the wrong one.The bearing assembly should be pressed into the housing until it is flush with the housing. The hub (flange) which should be 3/8" .375 thick should then be pressed on until you have 5 5/8"+ or - 1/16" between the pump to block mounting surface and the pulley side of the hub. You should then have 1/4" .250 to 3/8".375 of shaft on the end for the pulley to fit on. If you add the thickness of the hub .375 and the minimum length of the shaft on the end .250=.625 you see you do not have enough 5/8" shaft on the end for the pulley. The 5/8" shaft on the pump I have is about 1.100" long. The hole in the hub (flange) is 5/8" correct?
I will have to get back to you about the cast impeller to housing clearance and the impeller to rear plate clearance. The pump I have has .050 to .060 impeller to housing clearance and .015 to .017 impeller to plate clearance, with compressed gasket. I do not think these numbers are correct as the pump has been re-built and the rear gasket looks like it is too thick.
Will have to wait until Monday to get in touch with Dakoninc about  your problem and getting the correct kits.
Bob

[JohnZ]

'65-'70 BB water pumps had a 3/4" shaft and 5/8" pilot with a 1-3/4" hub bolt circle; starting in '71, they had a 3/4" pilot and a 2-1/8" hub bolt circle. All pumps have a 5/8" shaft on the impeller end.

Arthur Gould Rebuilders in Fort Salonga, New York, (631) 269-0093, has been rebuilding water pumps for decades; they turn them around in 3 days or less for about $65.00.

[My68SS]

Hi John,
By 3/4" shaft, do you mean that only that part of the shaft inside the bearing was 3/4", or that the flange part was also 3/4" as per the pic I have posted in the other thread [linked to in this thread] - i.e. 3/4" flange stepping down to 5/8" pilot?

edit: Is 5-5/8" the correct height for the flange? At this height the pulley has only about a .010" gap to the pump body.
5-3/4" would seem about right, both for clearance and alignment.

[My68SS]

Bob, have sent you a pm

[big iron]

Rob,
After remeasuring, you are correct the measurement should be 5 3/4" +or- 1/16". Sorry I did not catch the typo.
The shaft is 3/4" necked down to 5/8". The hole in the flange is 5/8". Is the hole in your flange 5/8" or 3/4"?
Bob

Hi John,
By 3/4" shaft, do you mean that only that part of the shaft inside the bearing was 3/4", or that the flange part was also 3/4" as per the pic I have posted in the other thread [linked to in this thread] - i.e. 3/4" flange stepping down to 5/8" pilot?

edit: Is 5-5/8" the correct height for the flange? At this height the pulley has only about a .010" gap to the pump body.
5-3/4" would seem about right, both for clearance and alignment.

[My68SS]

Now this is were it gets really intersting - especially for me!!   
The only thing I know for sure at the moment is that the supplied flange in the kit is 3/4". Everything else is now in something of a state of confusion for me.
Here's why -

Decades ago I rebuilt the water pump and the only bearing I could get at the time was one which had a 3/4" shaft the whole length - pilot, flange and impeller.
Now I do positively remember enlarging the pulley hole [double groove and possibly not original to this car but is the subject of further investigation] and the fan extension [definitely not the original] to suit the 3/4" shaft. [even the fan was a 6 blade therefore not original]

These were easy to modify as they are not precision interference press fit, although still have to be carefully sized and centered anyway to be a snug push-on fit with no run-out.
But for the life of me, I cannot remember enlarging the flange hole, or the impeller hole. But maybe the flange hole was already 3/4", hence my question to John asking to clarify exactly which part of the shaft was 3/4".

But then what of the pic in the ebay auction, showing a shaft that is 5/8" the whole length and the seller saying he can't get that one any more and is going to change his pic to show the one that is now in the kit.
That would suggest that the originals were 5/8" for both flange and pilot. In fact I've pulled another bb pump apart and that's what it has, a 5/8 shaft and 5/8 flange, and the same for many other small block pumps that I have kicking around.

But then what about the impeller, that would have required me to set it up in a 4 jaw chuck, muck around with a dial indicator getting the original hole running true [though not quite as critical as the flange], then machining it to an exact press fit.
Futhermore, the surface finish in both the flange and the impeller is a very bright polished finish. I don't think I could have got that kind of finish using just a lathe - I don't know - I don't remember anyone I knew that would have had a lathe - I certainly didn't have one....I'm not even sure what city I was in at the time!!! 
[dammit brain, why can't you remember!!]

So at the moment I have a mix of bits that I'm unsure of were they came from, or how they got the way they are....

[My68SS]

The kit at Zip-corvette.com  seems to be the go, looks like it even comes with a pressing tool for the bearing - nice   [but no flange as you noted ]
I've emailed them about the bearing dimensions and postage to AU

There should be stacks of sb pumps around that you could rat a 5/8 flange off?

[big iron]

Rob,
They list a ceramic seal also, and I think I remember JohnZ saying something about them. Could have been an A6 compressor seal. I will ask Zip if it is standard or an up-grade for their kit tomorrow.
Bob

The kit at Zip-corvette.com  seems to be the go, looks like it even comes with a pressing tool for the bearing - nice  [but no flange as you noted ]
I've emailed them about the bearing dimensions and postage to AU

There should be stacks of sb pumps around that you could rat a 5/8 flange off?