barrett jackson las vegas Z-28

[firstgenaddict]

Around here they used to push them into a ditch or hole and cover them up...

[666 the legend]

....Why do that when yah can get a lil $$$$ at a scrap yard..??

[SuperSport]

The only thing that seems fishy here is the rash of opioniated newbies

Well Tom, you've got to admit this car has certainly put the spotlight on a couple of internet sites ( and that's good for business).  I will refrain from comment and just say HI ! and I like the posts and info. Thanks.

[Brandan]

I guess the only truly way to know what you have is to be the original owner or part of a family of the original owner, etc..  If you buy BJ or Ebay, you leave yourself open to fraud and you are on your own (buyer beware).  Now if you get a fix-r-upper that is truly rusted out with docs and the numbers match you might have better luck. 

The days of johnny went to Vietnam and didn't come back and by the way his car is in barn are long over......

just my .02

Brandan-

[GaryL]

I still think the nice cars trade privately. High profile on BJ = stupid.

[JL8Jeff]

I've been in contact with the original owner of my JL8 car.  He gave me information you could never find out anywhere else.

[sdkar]

As far as the car later being checked out by law enforcement does not mean much.  I have done quite a few of these VIN checks as a police officer.  All it amounts to is running the VIN to make sure it has not been reported stolen and verifying that the VIN is on the car.  The stolen vehicle database is not connected to the DMV database, so if for some reason, the car was listed as crushed by DMV, and I run a search on the stolen hit list, nothing will come up.  Also, all a police officer is going to do is match the title to the VIN on the dash and that is it.  Maybe check for some tampering, but we all know that the VINS on our first gen Camaros are easy as pie to remove and replace.  There is no crawling under the car or looking for the other hidden VIN stamps.  Hell, how many police officers would even know where to look.  Heck, outside of first gen Camaros, I have absolutely no idea where to look on any other car for any hidden VIN.  There is no book that has these hidden VINS listed somewhere that only police have access to.  To be honest, there may be some criminal activity here, but I would be willing to bet that no state attorney would ever take this case as there is really no stolen vehicle and no victim of car theft so to speak.  (I may be wrong but I would bet good money I'm not).  If there is a criminal investigation, I bet that it is cursory at best and in the end, the party making the complaint will be told that this is a civil matter and not criminal.  As I said, as a police officer, I used to work many auto theft cases and they are some of the most difficult cases to prove, and that is with way more evidence than is available in this situation.  If whoever buys or bought this car and paid way too much for a car that was mis-represented, than they can get the lawyers involved and place a $ figure on the harm caused and a judgment is entered, case closed.  No one is going to jail.  Buyer beware does apply, and as shown here, even the best of us can be fooled.      

[samanatoo]

I spoke with the original owner of my Hugger Orange 69Z a few  times before I bought  my car and several times after.  Best acurrate info you can get as long as they are  still with us in the flesh.  I still can not believe that he started this thread without considering the outcomes "stupid is as stupid does" , Forest Gump!

[carguy]

This has been a very disturbing thread to follow.  Obviously there are major questions raised on the vin tag, etc. and that the car could be a rebody which was not disclosed.  However, I have just as much or more problem with the Barrett Jackson description that the owner provided.  Most Buyers place great reliance on what ius stated on this deescription.  In it the seller states twice that the car was certified and documented by Jerry McNeish.  (See below)  Reading previous post though it is my understanding Jerry certifed that the car did not have the original drivetrain.   Therefore, other than this what then was certified by Jerry that is positive?  However, would one not assume from this description Jerry's reputation that the car had the original drivetrain and was a very correct car?  It reminds me of Bill Clinton's "It depends upon the meaning of is...."  Kind of sleezy in my mind. 


Complete restoration by Kent Waters Originals. Rally Green with black standard interior and NOS Cross-Ram. An early production with full documentation including three registered owner car history and is Jerry MacNeish certified.
Description Rally Green with black standard interior. Factory options include deluxe seatbelts, Rose Wood dash inserts, console with gauges, Rally Sport, headlight washers, Endura bumper, shoulder restraints, head restraints, 4.10 ratio rear with Muncie M-20 transmission, and front and rear spoilers. This Z/28 has a NOS Cross-Ram and has been completely restored by Kent Waters Originals and comes with over 1,000 detailed restoration photos. This car is a three registered owner car and comes with complete documentation that has been certified by a forensic document examiner. Documentation includes Window Sticker, pre-delivery check, car shipper paperwork, Protect-O-Plate, key envelope, key knock outs, original keys, owner's manual, original dated 1969 photos of car, dealer installed accessory sheet and much more. Car has been documented and certified by Jerry MacNeish. Car was restored with all GM sheet metal, bumpers and tons of NOS GM parts.

[200mph]

Please go back and review the original poster's story (since recanted) and his supporting "documentation".  All of the fraud here lies within.  His "documents" are copies, and his "cowl VIN" was cut from one of the 14 other Camaros he has owned.  Perhaps he can explain why.

There is no evidence that this car had its cowl VIN altered, removed or replaced.  I have seen bare-metal photos of the cowl area, and reviewed many of the more than 1000 photos of its restoration.  In Hall County, Ga., certifying VIN numbers is a very serious business, and this car was certified with correct, matching VINs in ALL 5 locations, (tag, cowl, heater, engine, trans) PRIOR to its restoration. 

I have read Jerry MacNeish's report on this car.  It is exhaustive, and extremely well detailed.  Kent Waters had him certify this car prior to final assembly so issues that Jerry raised could be corrected as the car went together.  Jerry's report says "This Camaro and trim tag are certified as real and authentic".  And Jerry points out "Excellent original documentation file with this Z28 Camaro."

Jerry's report does not flag the engine or drivetrain as reproduction or restamped.  Jerry evaluated two other cars for Mr. Waters on the same day as this one.  One of those cars did have an incorrect drivetrain, and that car has since been built as a resto-mod.  It was not this car.

Classic Gary's story is a sad one.  Sadder still, is that after all these years, he is so upset about losing this car that he has created (and many of you have fueled) an unfair firestorm under Kent Waters, Jerry MacNeish, Hall County, Barrett-Jackson, and even Ron Pratt.

All auto hobbyists and collectors oppose fraud, and are rightly outraged when it occurs.  But this is a real car, painstakingly documented and carefully restored, with many steps taken along the way to rebut any questions of its authenticity..

[sd1968z28]

say what?

[bertfam]

200mph, you need to go back and read the report again. Jerry himself stated in his post above:

I flagged the drive train as a restoration drive train in the report on the car.

If I were going to believe anyone on this forum, it would be Jerry.

And by the way, just because Jerry wrote:

The trim tag and vin number tag and paperwork is real.

dsoesn't mean it started life on THAT particluar car.

I find it amazing that people choose to publish bits and pieces of data to justify their end result. We already know Jerry can't post the informaton because of contractural agreements, but the buyer and/or seller certainly could. IF they wanted to that is...

Ed

[200mph]

Ed, Please reread my post. 
I do not see any such flag in the report or certification for THIS car.  Jerry reviewed three cars at that location that day.  That may account for the confusion.
Mike

[bertfam]

Well Mike, this could all be cleared up very quickly if you would just answer the one question asked over on Team Camaro by Chris "NOT4NJUNK":

Are these the tags from that car or not?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but this sure has gone on long enough! A simple yes or no would put this thread, the one on Team Camaro and the one on The Supercar Registry to rest!

Ed

[Gramps69Z]

 

It doesn't look fake to me.