Possible find 67 L30/M20

[Jeffro67]

Thanks Paul, I am looking foward to that.
Jeff.

[Jeffro67]

Paul, now I really can't wait to get that book, check this out. I can't find a suffix code on my engine, where it is supposed to be there is nothing, no vin either. The engine has not been decked ever it still has original bore 4.00 in.   and GM domed pistons #3866954. I have not measured the stroke yet but getting ready to. Could it be possible that this engine with theese numbers  could be a 302?
 Also my car is factory bracketed in 2 places both sides of car for dual exhaust. It also has a 3/8 fuel line, 3/8 OD.
 Also some one mentioned there is a big block cross member in there. Do you know if there were big and small front drum brakes for 67? and also, do you know when GM first sold Z28 and big block cars to the public? 66 or 67?

Jeff.

[Jeffro67]

I have been pouring through archived forum discussions for the last few days and WOW! What an unbelieveable web site. Hats off to Kurt, Rich, senior members and everybody else associated with CRG that has organized and contributed to this effort. Research on the site is made easy and there is indeed a vast pool of expierienced knowledge to draw from. Although in some threads reference is made to not wanting to devulge some parts of the data base on a public forum, with so much information, one can almost extrapolate to the same conclusion as if he had recieved it. WOW! again, really cool.
 My favorate reading  so far has been the conversation about the first two L78 pace cars and Bill Jenkins' first car argument. That was very interesting because it ended I believe postulating the question, (where are the 20 L78 cars before Jenkins') likely 4P coded. And someone concluded, probably destroyed.
 I have to admit my 67 is only the second Chevy I have owned, a 64 283 Nova the other. Yep Rich, Camero, remember, that's why I guess I'm not that knowledgeable.
 Oh well. I am very fond of them both and I am learning thanks to you guys.
 Thanks to everybody who has responded to my questions thus far. But can you guys definitively conclude for me that my car is not an early 02B 4P coded L78 so I can concentrate on getting back to L30/M20 specs?

Facts so far:
               1 (wrong rear end)
               2 (Factory dual exhaust but not optioned on tag) (or maybee is should only be optioned on build sheet not tag?)
               3 (speedo cable usage on drivers side of steering column, no hole cut for other)
               4 (manual drum brakes)
               5 (manual steering)
               6 (radius rod stiffener plate on floor under back seat)
               7 (4 speed car yes)
               8 (4P car yes)
               9 (current small block heater box)
             10 (hidden VIN matches title)
             11 (fisher tag looks undisturbed)

questions:
               1 (were there any Saginaw L78 cars in early 67? contain laughter please 
               2 (mentioned was that I have a big block cross member, did he mean transmission or engine cross member?)
               3 (do my engine mounts appear to be small or big block?)
               4 (were there small and big front manual drums in 67?)
               5 (how do you measure fuel line diamater? ID. or OD.)
               

              Ya, Ya, I know....... dream on.              If you guys get a chance, thanks alot.
             
               Jeff.

[Stillwater Camaro]

The speedo cable hole is the best evidence of a Saginaw trans car and they weren't put behind anything bigger than a 327..I think you know the answer....L30/M20....don't be disappointed. No, it wasn't a big block car, but that 327 was a VERY close match to the 350. That's why they got the same 12 bolt axle and radius rod.

[Jeffro67]

Thanks Stillwater Camaro, Ya, but not a BIG dissappointment. A L30/M20 is still a very unique car and some of the original parts are rumored to be possibly available way up north of me. And Mountain Green  with a exterior molding group package.

[Stillwater Camaro]

some of the original parts are rumored to be possibly available way up north of me. 

That would be awesome. Get after them before they are gone.

[Jeffro67]

Can anybody confirm for me that the 67 L30 engine was rated at 275 HP? and was there any higher HP rated 327 in 67? Did they obtain the 270 HP rating with flat top pistons and 1.94 closed chamber heads?

[1968RSZ28]

Can anybody confirm for me that the 67 L30 engine was rated at 275 HP?

Confirmed.

and was there any higher HP rated 327 in 67?

Not available in a Camaro, but the '67 Corvette had two 327 cid engines; the base 327 rated at 300hp and the L79 327 rated at 350hp.

Paul

[Stillwater Camaro]

They also came in the Chevelle, Chevy II and Impala lines. If you do some research on the engine specs across the line you will see that the 275 and 300 were IDENTICAL engines. Chev rated the hp lower for certain models, but all the parts have the same part number. The 350 hp had different pistons and heads to achieve a higher compression and to accommodate the higher lift cam. All the configurations were built on the same block, so you can easily use similar parts to get well into the upper 300 hp range with the 327 engine. If you can get the original engine...snag it !! No need for a 350 unless you plan to build a h p monster. The original is worth far more in value in that car.
Good Luck.....

[Jeffro67]

Right, I want to put it back to original.
 
When I bought the car a few weeks ago, I just assumed the engine that was in the trunk was a core that was rounded up some where along the line with the blue nose that is on the car because the gut I bought it from said the owner before him took out Quote "the hot rod engine and transmission" unquote, and put it in one of his other cars. But, I have recently talked to that person, (Jay) and he says no, he took just the transmission and put it in a big block 2nd gen. car about thirteenyears ago. He says he thinks it's around somewhere. Iv'e also offered him 100.00 just for the orriginal VIN tag that he says he still has somewhere. Still waiting on a price for the M20 if he finds it? He said that car was a special optioned Quote "hipo engine" unquote, camaro. Check out the pictures I posted of the engine, I can't find the casting no. of that block anywhere, but the casting date looks to be very correct for the early 02B car. There is no suffix code or vin stamped in the pads and it has never been decked because it still has original 4.00 bore with stock GM domed pistons in it. Right now I'm soaking and cleaning the bores so I don't damage it when I rotate it to measure the bore. Right now I don't even know if it is a 302, 327, 350,  accually the crank flane looks like a 327, never seen a 302 before. It does sound logical though that Chevrolet wouldn't have stamped an engine with marks if it (wasn't) one of them engines, and maybe they didn"t have a code stamp for a higher HP engine in 67 if it wasn"t the norm but only A one time (speacial option)

[1968RSZ28]

Right now I don't even know if it is a 302, 327, 350,  accually the crank flane looks like a 327, never seen a 302 before.

The 302 crank flywheel flange has a unique shape, with a pie slice-shaped cutout on the edge, shown below...

Paul

[Jeffro67]

Thanks paul, I see it. Mine does not look like that, no long lost 302 here!

Jeff.

[Stillwater Camaro]

All production engines had a factory code stamped in the pad. Without a code the assembly line workers would've have a clue what it was. If it was bought as an over-the-counter, it might have come plain. The crankshaft has a casting number on it too. Get that and post it and it will tell you what it is.
The casting number of your block is a 62-67   327. It was also used for replacement blocks/engines. If it had been a warranty replacement it would have  "CE" stamped in the pad. As i said above, if it was bought by a customer as an o-t-c new engine, it may not be stamped at all. The cast date does align with the build date of the car but, again, it could've been shelved for some time and sold o-t-c. It's possible the block had head gasket issues and was decked but not bored. It's 40 years old and who knows where it's been and what's been done to it.
I wouldn't bet on the original Saginaw having survived, as they were too weak even for the 275 327 and if run hard didn't last long.
Gotta go for the weekend here, but I'll be interested in seeing what has transpired when I get back Sunday. Have a happy weekend of researching...

[Jeffro67]

Very good points, I just read some where in the CRG archives although I remember where, but it seemed like the engine stamp was sometime late in the vehicle  assembly process. I think I remember reading the assembly line had to remove the altenator to do it. That seems like a  pretty complete car  to me. I guess I'll get the crank number when I dissasemble the short block. Right now I'm kind of cleaning it up (the cylinders) that is. I'll post a picture of the front pad right away.

Jeff.

[JohnZ]

Very good points, I just read some where in the CRG archives although I remember where, but it seemed like the engine stamp was sometime late in the vehicle  assembly process.

On a production engine, the engine plant stamp on the pad was applied in the engine plant, right after the heads went on. The VIN derivative was stamped on the pad in the car assembly plant, on the engine dress line.