Master Cylinder Quiz - Need Some Help

[rich69rs]

Until today, I had no reason to doubt that the master cylinder on my '69 RS was not original.  My car has power drum brakes and according to CRG information under the Chassis section:

"Master Cylinders

1967-69 Camaros used Delco Moraine master cylinders. The casting number is on the the side of the master cylinder. All 67-69 drum brake cars used the 5452310 casting except 1967 J65 cars used the 5461862 casting."

The section goes on to state that:  "The application code for the master cylinder was stamped on a small pad on the front of the casting,..."; and that the application code for all 67-69 drum brake cars, either power or manual, should be: BS.  There is a note that states that:  " unverified CT code has also been observed".

Now for the quiz question.  The attached pic shows the master cylinder on my car.   The next two posts with attached pics show the casting number and the application code stamp.  The casting number on this master cylinder is:  5460465 and the application code is indeed CT.  According to CRG data, this master cylinder was originally on something other than a 69 Camaro.  Any ideas where it came from?

 

[rich69rs]

Master Cylinder Part Number

[rich69rs]

Appliation Code "CT"

[Steve68]

Your casting code has come up a couple of times during posts and discussions........http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1488.msg17930#msg17930 and http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1488.msg17930#msg17930

Steve

[rich69rs]

Steve,

Thanks for the info.  Never picked up on the previous threads before. 

So, if I understand the info. in the link you posted, other 1st Gen Camaros with power drum brakes have been documented with master cylinder casting # 5460465 (the 67 RS/SS 350 car for example)?  If that is the case, then I assume that #5460465 doesn't show up in the CRG chassis section discussion on master cylinders because there is still additional research ongoing as to usage?

Richard   

[KurtS]

That's not a casting # that has shown up, save for one post (Daral's). Not to say it's not a possible useage. We don't have a ton of m/c data in the db. We record the data as we see it and m/c data is rarely seen / posted.
Remember, we get data from y'all and only dig into things like this when a conversation like this happens.

The one thing that catches my eye is your m/c has bleeders. After digging into the 67 manual disc stuff, it became apparent that all power m/c's probably had bleeders (cause it is tilted). http://www.camaros.org/images/pages/chassis/master_cyl_cross.jpg

So I'm thinking that there may be two castings due to bleeders and two applications. 5452310, 5460465, BS & CT.
But Kevin's m/c is 5452310 and CT and Daral's J50 m/c is 5460465 and BS. Which refutes the code part of that theory. 5460465 could be bleeder equipped / power drum only though.

Kevin, your car is manual brakes, right?

Right now, we need more data on power drum cars, 67-69. Anyone?
Looking for casting #, stamped code, power or manual, bleeders or not?
Data on manual drum cars is fine too!
Thanks!

[KevinK]

 Ah, ...now I know why the emails from Kurt  , ...I guess I better stop over here more often.
   
   ...to answer here, ...yes, ...mine is manual.

[rich69rs]

Ok, a little more information on the 5460465 master cylinder in my Norwood built, 01C '69 RS.

As shown in one of the previous attached pictures in this posting,  my car has power (drum) brakes resulting in the master cylinder being mounted inclined and hence the need for it to have bleeder valves.  On my master cylinder, the casting number, 5460465, is on the bottom on the RH (passenger) side with the CT application code stamped into the tab at the front of the master cylinder.

On the LH (driver) side on the bottom are two additional numbers.  On the bottom to the front is the Julian date code - "170" (June 19).  On the bottom to the rear is the foundry pattern number "D14".  (Note link below.  In other posts dealing with disc brake cars, the number D7 is found on the bottom of the master cylinder.  JohnZ explains that the D7 is not a date code, but a foundry pattern number.  Same should be true here.  I am assuming that the D14 number is the foundry pattern number for the 5460465 master cylinder.)  http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3371.msg21966#msg21966

I believe what we are beginning to appreciate, and need to document, is whether or not it is true that there were four different master cylinders covering:  manual drum (no bleeders), power drum (with bleeders), manual disc (no bleeders), and power disc (with bleeders); and were the same master cylinder casting numbers used for all 1st Gen Camaros???

Come on guys - go look at your master cylinders and help Kurt with the information that he has requested.  "Right now, we need more data on power drum cars, 67-69. Anyone? Looking for casting #, stamped code, power or manual, bleeders or not?  Data on manual drum cars is fine too!"  You may not be able to photograph the numbers, but you can read them easily enough with an inspection mirror and a flashlight and post what you find back to the CRG forum.

[rich69rs]

Picture of the D14 Foundry Pattern Number

[rich69rs]

In addition to the info. I've found on the master cylinder on my '60 RS, I also checked the vacuum booster on my power drum setup. 

According to:  http://www.camaros.org/suspen.shtml#Brakecomp, the tab at the top of the booster is stamped on the front with the application code "3972" and on the back of the tab is the Julian date code.  On my booster the front of the tab is stamped "397" and the Julian date code on the back is "013" (January 13) which agrees very nicely with the approximate build date for my car (20 - 21 Jan 1969).

At this point I would conclude that the "397" booster and the "5460465" master cylinder are original to my car.

[KurtS]

I updated http://www.camaros.org/suspen.shtml#Brakecomp.
It has the the updated master cyl casting #'s. I also added info on the rear proportioning valve, steering info, and spring application data on that page.