Author Topic: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual  (Read 85776 times)

Dave69x33

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #120 on: January 03, 2022, 07:24:03 PM »
68sixBangerRS,

Just ran across your pics!  Very cool car!  Really enjoy your detail picks.  Years ago when I as a member of the Central Indiana Camaro Club (based in Indianapolis), there was member who had a basic 6-cylinder '69 Camaro convertible in the same color as yours.  The Camaro was restored but retained its original drive train, and a very rare 1st Gen for the fact it was not abused and converted to a V8.  The engine idled smooth and purred!  I have a restored, highly optioned '69 RS Z28, but I loved this 6-cylinder Camaro for what it was!

BTW...that red mark on your trunk seal is commonly found on survivor Camaros.  I have pictures of this mark from several survivor '69s that I have photo documented.  I understand that the red mark was used to start and position the middle of trunk seal in the upper middle area of the trunk seal channel so that the ends came together along the bottom area of the channel.  This help eliminate water leaks into the trunk.

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #121 on: January 11, 2022, 01:02:47 AM »
Dave...thanks for the photos of the Frost Green '69 convertible.  It looks like an absolute gem...I appreciate the photos and the info on the trunk seal paint mark.  And Her 68-His 69, thank you for the kind words...also much appreciated.  It appears from your avatar that you also have a 1st Gen Camaro with a 6-cylinder...we would all love to see more photos of both of your Camaros!

I thought I would give you all an update on the camshaft swap and its outcome.  As you may know, "Charlotte" (named for the original owner) sat in dry storage for approximately 38 years.  Charlotte and her husband Lyle enlisted the services of a mechanic (a shadetree mechanic) to get the car running after its very long nap.  This involved pulling the car with a pickup truck while dumping the clutch.  This was extremely hard on the engine because no attempt to pump up the oil pressure was made, causing excessive heat to the engine's internals.  This wiped out one of the exhaust lobes on the cam and caused a noticeable miss at idle.  The cam was replaced with an NOS cam made by Wolverine which had a GM number on it (Wolverine probably bought the mold from GM to make the cam).  The cam was installed with new Sealed Power lifters and plenty of assembly lube, plus a high-zinc engine additive.  The engine was run at 1,500-2,000 rpm for 45 minutes and then driven approximately 10 miles...a proper break-in.

Unfortunately, the engine still has some sort of mechanical shudder for 5-10 seconds in every 60 second period.  The mechanical sound is loudest (using the old screwdriver on the engine block trick) at the back of the engine...either the number 5 or 6 cylinder.  I believe this sound is being caused by a slightly bent valve.  I have a perfect head from a '74 Chevy 250 that I will swap while the original head is completely rebuilt.  "Charlotte" is currently sitting in the garage until the weather improves in 2-3 months. 

She will be going to two big shows this year...the 2022 VCCA (Vintage Chevrolet Club of America) Eastern Nationals in late July in Bowling Green, KY, and the Camaro Supernats in Ypsilanti, MI.  She may have the incorrect cylinder head, but by God she'll be at those shows!   
 

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #122 on: January 11, 2022, 01:20:47 AM »
I almost forgot to post photos of the latest little side project...replacing the badly pitted chrome pieces behind the doors.  I am an absolute purist regarding originality ("they're only original once"), and I realized that pulling the back seat and rear interior panels would give me access to the speed nuts holding the side chrome pieces in place.  I had a decent set of those pieces with only minor pitting and installed them to spiff up the car's appearance.  I have no problem installing nice used parts on Charlotte, but I will never install repop parts...puke!

bowtie68iho

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #123 on: April 16, 2022, 02:34:30 PM »
Can you post close up photos of the jacking instructions on the underside of the trunk lid?  Also, in your 1st post, you stated: "The air cleaner has some surface rust, but still has most of its original paint, as well as a nearly perfect "250 Turbo-thrift" sticker and its side sticker ("Keep your GM car all GM")."  Can you post a closeup photo of the sticker on the side of the air cleaner?  Thanks!

Bernie
68 NOR SS/RS L48/M35 Convertible
Cordovan Maroon - Special Paint Exterior (black stripes)
Black Custom Interior
Silver Concours (Legends Class) at 2012 Camaro Nationals, Gold Concours at 2014 MCACN.

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2023, 05:31:27 PM »
Bernie, I haven't been on here for many months...I will post the photos you requested as soon as I get to the storage building where I keep the car.

"Charlotte" has been out-of-commission for nearly a year due to her poorly running 6-banger.  To refresh your memories, she sat in a machine shed in Nebraska for about 35 years (1983-2018) on the farm owned by Charlotte's brother Bob (Charlotte was the original owner).  Bob and his two sons decided in 2018 to get the Camaro running again. so they did it the old fashioned way by tying it to a pickup truck with a long chain and then dragged it to jump start it by popping the clutch.  Unfortunately, they neglected to pull the distributor and pump the engine oil up with a drill on the oil pump shaft.  They succeeded in wiping out the camshaft's number 5 exhaust lobe (an NOS GM cam was installed but did not fully correct the problem) and caused another unknown problem inside the engine.  It still has a persistent and highly noticeable vibration problem from idle up to 3,000 rpm, which I suspect is due to a bent number 5 exhaust valve.

My intention is to have the Camaro's original 250 "BE" coded engine completely gone through by Tom Lowe who runs a shop called "12 Bolt Engines" in Dysert, IA.  Tom is nationally recognized for his expert machine work on GM rear ends, as well as 6-cylinder and 4-cylinder engines of all makes and persuasions.  Tom Lowe is good friends with Tom Langdon, who was formerly the recognized expert on 6-cyliner engines and ran a machine shop specializing in them in Utica, MI (he retired in 2017).  Unfortunately, my desired machine shop is booked through the rest of this year, so what should I do right now?  How about getting on Craigslist and looking for a good running Chevy 6 to swap into Charlotte and allow me to drive her until her original engine is rebuilt?  Good idea!

I started looking for the aforementioned 6-banger before Christmas.  I found only a few 230s and 250s and none were suitable.  Most had been sitting in Chevy pickups that were being converted to LS-power, or had been disassembled and were now basically junk.  And then I hit paydirt.  I found a guy in Austin. MN who was taking the perfectly-running 230 out of a '70 Nova coupe with 40k original miles, and swapping in a 396/375 hp to create a phony SS.  I called the guy (John) and learned he was 74 years-old, retired, and a recent widower.  The Nova had belonged to his wife's aunt and was a 100% original museum piece.  John's wife would never let him touch her aunt's Nova, but now that he was alone he could recreate the '69 Nova 396/375 he had owned as a young punk.

I pulled my son Alex (age 10) out of school on a Friday with the old "sneezing with a low fever" excuse, and we headed to U-haul to rent an open trailer for 3 days.  We drove my beloved 2000 Camry on the trip (simply an AWESOME car) and spent two nights in hotels on the trip.  We arrived at John's modest ranch house in Austin at noon on Saturday (2 weekends ago).  The Nova was Frost Green (same color as my '69 Camaro) and heartbreakingly original (dark green cloth bench seat, rubber floor mat in pristine condition, radio delete (note the delete plate in attached photo), tinted glass, and Powerglide tranny).  In fact, the entire car was in pristine condition.  I paid $400 for the engine which included the beautiful, nearly-perfect air cleaner and 1970-dated original Delco plug wires, as well as the original Delco "202" coil and plug wire separators.  John was also nice enough to sell me the original front speaker cardboard block-off plate, since he didn't need it.

I anticipate having Charlotte back on the road with the next few weeks, and I will be attending the Camaro Supernats in Ypsilanti, MI this summer.  Next year she will get her 3-on-the-tree shifter returned to working condition (she currently has a floor shifter from an early '70s Nova).

My

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2023, 05:33:25 PM »
Some pics of the 230.

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2023, 05:40:19 PM »
The air cleaner cleaned up beautifully with Simple Green, an ultra-soft bristle tooth brush, and liquid Turtle Wax, and is even nicer than my '69's original.  I will be putting this on Charlotte's engine with the top from her original air cleaner (which has a beautiful and nearly perfect "250" decal).

MO

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #127 on: February 20, 2023, 06:16:02 AM »
Cool story!

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #128 on: February 22, 2023, 05:34:59 AM »
MO, nice to hear from you again.  I'll be posting about the engine swap soon.  I'll have the only 230 equipped 3-speed manual coupe left in existence.  I'm betting it'll run great.  Best regards, Alex

MO

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #129 on: February 22, 2023, 06:10:38 AM »
Alex, I appreciate what you are doing and look forward to your posts! I always check here for updates.

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2023, 07:00:22 AM »
Thanks MO...it's a labor of love.  It's interesting how the 6 cylinder Camaros I have owned have received increased interest over the past couple of years.  Most of the Camaro guys who have seen my latest two '69s now realize that there are almost none left in existence, which is amazing considering that 26% of them were produced with sixes. 

Charlotte has it all...rarity, originality, paperwork, complete known history...the Camaro I sought for 35 or 40 years.  The fact that it was right under my nose (owned by my nephew's mother-in-law since new) for several years only adds to its mystique.

I'm attaching an article from the Jan. 2022 issue of the VCCA's (Vintage Chevrolet Club of America...I am a member) monthly magazine, the Generator and Distributor (a wonderful publication).  The cover car is a '69 Camaro with its original 250 and 3-on-the-tree shifter.  It is owned by its original owner, Glenn Kope from North Carolina.  The car is equipped very much like mine...RPO Z21 Style Trim Group, same drivetrain, whitewall tires, AM radio, but also has the "hockey stripe", front bumper guards, power steering, and full wheel covers (my car has tinted glass, which I think is a very nice option to have).  If there is any interest on here I will post the entire article.  Glenn had the entire car restored and it has won several prestigious awards. 

I'm happy to leave my car unrestored (although it will receive a professional repaint sometime in the next 2 or 3 years), as I prefer cars that are as close to original as possible.

I know of only four '69 Camaros with 6-bangers and 3-speed manuals...mine, Glenn's, a silver coupe with a blue interior and ghost flames that was for sale in AZ a few years ago, and the red convertible with a red interior and white top that was for sale in VA a few years ago (I'm guessing that car probably was swapped to a V8).  As I have said previously...rarer than a ZL1 (yes, I have heard the worn-out saying that "rare doesn't equal desirable", but that no longer applies to 1st Gen Camaros with sixes.  Go to any show with one and you will see a high level of interest in them.  I took Charlotte to a local show in Ohio that was sponsored by a Corvette club, and there was a steady stream of people who came to examine her.  Parked next to her was a Rally Green '68 RS/SS 396 convertible that received hardly a glance.

I have owned two '69 Camaros with 250 six cylinders and 3-speed manuals, and both took several months for their dealerships to unload (Charlotte was built in May, but not sold until Sept.).  Glenn Kope's '69 was also difficult for the dealer to sell due to its oddball drivetrain.

My plans for Charlotte are to temporarily swap in the 230 while her 250 is rebuilt, put the 3-on-the-tree shifter back in her, and put Frost Green wheels with dog dish hubcaps in place of the current black wheels with mag hubcaps (the car was built with them...the original Frost Green spare wheel is still in the trunk).

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2023, 07:04:50 AM »
This shows the options on Glenn Kope's '69.

MO

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #132 on: February 25, 2023, 06:22:23 AM »
Awesome! Every Camaro enthusiast should appreciate these cars in my opinion because they were the backbone of production. Wish there were more of them around. You and other likeminded owners deserve a lot of credit for saving these cars for the rest of the community to enjoy!

David K

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2023, 06:47:07 PM »
Very nice! I’d like to read that article. And yes, the 6 cars are rarely seen.
People used to walk by, and now they stop and look confused. Car show judges get stopped dead in their tracks on how to score the engine compartment.
Super Chevy at Virginia Motorsports Complex was a great day. What started with the judge assigned to the Camaros evolved into 7 judges reminiscing about swapping out a 6 for an 8 back in the day, and had no clue. So they asked and I gave a class about the 6 engine compartments. Best car show day!

68SixBangerRS

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Re: Survivor '69 Coupe with a 6-cylinder and a 3-speed manual
« Reply #134 on: February 27, 2023, 06:34:35 AM »
David K...I see you have a '68 with a 6-banger, but I couldn't find it in your 35 pages (what-the-hell?!) worth of posts.  Congrats on not destroying it with yet another BORING V8 swap.  Doesn't it feel good to go to a show with something that is truly rare and cool (and drives people nuts)? 

I was stationed in "Sandy Eggo" from 1978-84 at 32nd Street Naval Station and owned a couple of cool F-bodies...a blue '67 RS with a 327 and a 4-speed that I bought for $1,200 from a guy in Ramona.  I put an Edelbrock Torker intake and a Holley 650 on it, as well as Hooker headers, a Hurst shifter to replace the Muncie, and a 12-bolt posi rear from a junkyard in San Ysidro (I think it was $350).  I stupidly sold it for $3,500 to another squid so I could buy a new KZ1000.  My other F-body was a '69 Trans Am I bought in Tijuana for $500 in March of '80.  It was in extremely rough shape, but I intended to keep it and restore it.  I stored it at 4-A ("AAAA") Auto Storage in the Gaslamp Quarter (oldest part of downtown SD for the uninformed) during a Westpac (a 9 month-long deployment to the Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf).  When I returned to reclaim my prize, it had been stripped of all of its Trans Am parts.  Not having a crystal ball to look into the next century to see all of those parts being reproduced, I figured I would never be able to find the rare '69 TA-specific parts and I sold the car for $3,000 to a Pontiac collector from Newport Beach. It was equipped with its original Ram Air III engine, an M-21 4-speed, posi rear, rare factory gauges and tach, rare '69-only Formula wheel (2nd Gen Formula wheels were slightly different), blue standard interior, power steering and brakes, an AM radio, Rally II wheels, and factory AC.  It also had red "Ram Air" decals on the hood which I have never seen on another '69 TA (very faded...hard to see in the first photo).  The photos below show me as a 22 yr-old punk with a bad attitude  8).  Note that the license plate is from the Mexican state of Fronteras de Baja California ("Front BC").

Per your request I am posting the VCCA article on Glenn Kope's '69 six-banger Camaro.  He is mistaken in thinking that his '69 was produced with a leftover '68 3-on-the-tree steering column ('69s are the only First Gens that had their ignition switches on the steering columns).  He is also mistaken in thinking that he has the only '69 Camaro with a six-banger and a 3-on-the-tree (mine will have its 3-speed returned to its original column-shift by this time next year).  I contacted him to talk about his car and mine, but he decided not to stay in touch...his choice.