Pony Car/Musclecar market going away?

[crossboss]

Boys,
Some opinions on this…unfortunately, it appears to me and others that our beloved Pony Cars along with the Musclecar demand is coming to a slow end. Reason I say this, most of my friends in this hobby are a bit older then myself (no disrespect), along with the age, and health issues are forcing them to sell their cars/collections/parts. Since the younger generation (kids) appear to have no interest in our cars, and auction sales tend to favor the Resto-mods. Lastly, when you can buy a new Challenger/Camaro/Mustang with 700+ horse power, along with a warranty, why would a consumer want an older car these days? Your thoughts... agree/disagree?

[Kelley W King]

Being one of those "a bit older" persons I think you can look around at the shows and swap meets and tell that the muscle car group is definitely aging. How fast interest in these cars drops who knows. I also think the values has leveled of or maybe declined if you allow for inflation. I was offered more for my 69Z 15 years ago than I probably could get today. But I have little desire for a new 880 HP car unless it has headers and flowmasters.

[camaroboy68ss]

As one of the younger guys and I have each of the spectrum. Besides the 68, I also have a 17 Camaro SS. While the 17 runs circle around my 68, I still find much more enjoyment getting the 68 out and going for a drive.

This conversation is something I am seeing alot of lately. Outside of Camaro's, I am heavily involved with 30's Fords and tri five Chevy's and thats something that has been brought up for years and with watching the prices of those vehicles it seems that the gap between a finished car and a project is gotten really small. I do see the interest for original restored cars dwindling as my generation is accustomed to all the plush standard features cars have today, so the restomod and pro touring trends are what is going to keep any interest in the old muscle cars as loads of the younger crowd love the styling and look of the old cars, they just cant put up with the old motors and chassis designs. I guess that makes me an outlier as there is really nothing like the sound of a 30/30 cam or sitting in that old vinyl seat.

[bcmiller]

Yes the group is aging but I am doing my best to keep interest with the under 30 crowd. Tough to do though...

[william]

There is a far bigger picture here; other bastions of the baby-boomer generation are rapidly declining in popularity. MLB attendance, auto racing in most forms, beer sales, newspaper sales, motorcycle sales.

The collector vehicle hobby will go on, but without us and the cars we like. There have been several good articles on the topic lately, most recently in the Monterey edition of the Hagerty Insider. All sorts of charts and graphs, based on insurance quotes.

20 Vehicles with the highest share of younger buyers:   # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/Gen X: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/millennials: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/pre-boomer: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/boomers: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 4 + 68-73 Corvette

This has not been lost on Barrett-Jackson. Craig Jackson writes an editorial “View From the Block” that appears on line and is published in the event program. Some recent quotes:

Now, when you consider the first baby boomers are hitting retirement age we’re seeing another generational shift. The Gen Xers and millennials are gravitating to the cars from the ‘80s and ‘90s with Japanese imports drawing increasing attention. This was very much in evidence at our 2018 Las Vegas Auction where we saw two Toyota pickups from the 1980s and a 1997 Acura Integra Type R set new world records at auction. The Acura in particular caused a stir in the automotive world with the story of its $63,800 sale spreading like wildfire on the internet and social media; our Facebook post about the sale reached nearly 2 million people.

Will Barrett-Jackson still sell prewar classics and muscle cars? Of course - but perhaps just not as many as in years past. I’ve always said that Barrett-Jackson needs to embrace change as the collector car demographic evolves. As a result, you’ll likely see an even wider, more eclectic selection of vehicles cross our auction block in the coming years.

The trends we saw so clearly in Scottsdale continued to fire up bidders in Florida, with nine of the top 10 sales falling into the hot categories of Resto-Mods, contemporary supercars, ’80s and ’90s vehicles, and classic trucks and SUVs.

One can only speculate on when we’ll see the last internal combustion engine car, then the last car you can actually drive, with autonomous vehicles now on the scene. The times are changing, to be sure.

No party goes on forever.

[camaroboy68ss]

There is a far bigger picture here; other bastions of the baby-boomer generation are rapidly declining in popularity. MLB attendance, auto racing in most forms, beer sales, newspaper sales, motorcycle sales.

The collector vehicle hobby will go on, but without us and the cars we like. There have been several good articles on the topic lately, most recently in the Monterey edition of the Hagerty Insider. All sorts of charts and graphs, based on insurance quotes.

20 Vehicles with the highest share of younger buyers:   # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/Gen X: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/millennials: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/pre-boomer: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 0
2019 favorites by share of quotes/boomers: 20 vehicles listed:  # of ‘60s Muscle Cars: 4 + 68-73 Corvette

This has not been lost on Barrett-Jackson. Craig Jackson writes an editorial “View From the Block” that appears on line and is published in the event program. Some recent quotes:

Now, when you consider the first baby boomers are hitting retirement age we’re seeing another generational shift. The Gen Xers and millennials are gravitating to the cars from the ‘80s and ‘90s with Japanese imports drawing increasing attention. This was very much in evidence at our 2018 Las Vegas Auction where we saw two Toyota pickups from the 1980s and a 1997 Acura Integra Type R set new world records at auction. The Acura in particular caused a stir in the automotive world with the story of its $63,800 sale spreading like wildfire on the internet and social media; our Facebook post about the sale reached nearly 2 million people.

Will Barrett-Jackson still sell prewar classics and muscle cars? Of course - but perhaps just not as many as in years past. I’ve always said that Barrett-Jackson needs to embrace change as the collector car demographic evolves. As a result, you’ll likely see an even wider, more eclectic selection of vehicles cross our auction block in the coming years.

The trends we saw so clearly in Scottsdale continued to fire up bidders in Florida, with nine of the top 10 sales falling into the hot categories of Resto-Mods, contemporary supercars, ’80s and ’90s vehicles, and classic trucks and SUVs.

One can only speculate on when we’ll see the last internal combustion engine car, then the last car you can actually drive, with autonomous vehicles now on the scene. The times are changing, to be sure.

No party goes on forever.

That is understandable, Im kinda hoping the prices would start to drop on some these muscle cars, 32-34 fords and 55-57 Chevy's so I can start my hoarding collection. Still just too far out of reach for a 27 year old, lol.

[BULLITT65]

I have talked to a few guys in the know. One guy is the go to for certifying classic and rare Jaguars. He has talked at conferences with Wayne Carrrini, and other collectors. He has voiced his displeasure with the imports of the 90's taking center stage all of a sudden in Hagerty's public forum. While it may be hard to gauge how long classic cars may be relevant, their longevity had ebbed and flowed through the decades. There has always been newer cars available, and street rods/resto mods is  not a new phenomena. If we look at the Model T, and the enthusiasts who built and followed them, they are definitely long in the tooth, but a new generation has somewhat taken the mantle and rat rods them, while others like purchasing a stock running and driving T. While new motorcycles sales may be down, classic bikes have been on an upward trend for some time now. Hagerty may not acknowledge this, but they are a bit lackluster in certain areas.
So what I am trying to say, is while you can use real data from BJ, and Hagerty quotes, I do not think they define the larger picture, and in fact are more the fringe. If Art collectors have moved on from classic cars, and ridding the high times of muscle cars, and looking for the next big thing.
I have no problem with that, but Hagerty, Craig J, & Dana Mecum may not be thrilled that their higher tier of clients may be on the downward spiral. It is cyclical.
Its not going to stop me from collecting and enjoying cars though, since I have fun regardless of the values.

[67conv6cyl]

I see the problem being that
1. millennials can barely afford the cars that they drive everyday let alone collector cars!
The cost a living for the younger generations is not allowing them to have the excess funds too own a car that is not practical for there everyday use.
2. Lots of the younger generations don’t know how to wrench on cars, the cars of their lifetime need special tools and training to do anything with. My children (in there twenties) have never even changed there own oil in a car!
3. The younger generations are more into the electronics and devices that classic cars don’t have or support.
4. These cars where not around in there high school parking lots....heck these cars where a little before my time....late 70’s to early 80’s Trans Am’s where the used car that most high school kids wanted in my time.
 
With all that being said my daughter absolutely loves my 67 Camaro convertible she is very interested in it and wants it!
My son that is three years older then my daughter wants my newer corvette convertible!
My daughter wants to learn how to drive a manual. My son has no interest in a manual transmission car.

[vtfb68]

 Yes, it is. and I am good with that. I was/am not not into cars for profit, so maybe affordability will return.
Times change, as the small block wiped out the flathead the LS is wiping out the small block. that's just the way it is.
 I'm not ever going to replace original motors but I see a LS (Orange with factory valve covers and air cleaner with a two plane manifold and a F.I. Tech fuel injection)
 in my engine bay in the future. The car now has a 72 truck block anyway, wrong is wrong.

       My two cents
     
 

[BULLITT65]

I see the problem being that
1. millennials can barely afford the cars that they drive everyday let alone collector cars!
The cost a living for the younger generations is not allowing them to have the excess funds too own a car that is not practical for there everyday use.
2. Lots of the younger generations don’t know how to wrench on cars, the cars of their lifetime need special tools and training to do anything with. My children (in there twenties) have never even changed there own oil in a car!
3. The younger generations are more into the electronics and devices that classic cars don’t have or support.
4. These cars where not around in there high school parking lots....heck these cars where a little before my time....late 70’s to early 80’s Trans Am’s where the used car that most high school kids wanted in my time.
 
With all that being said my daughter absolutely loves my 67 Camaro convertible she is very interested in it and wants it!
My son that is three years older then my daughter wants my newer corvette convertible!
My daughter wants to learn how to drive a manual. My son has no interest in a manual transmission car.

As my kids are getting older they are all interested in older cars. But I will say they have been immersed in car culture since they were born. While we have a newer family car, we daily drive our older cars as well. My oldest, is only 14, but wants an older car as a daily. So I have been hunting for 1. I have had a couple fall through, but I am sure I can find something. I also have a 55 Bel air project that my 12 yr old son has been interested in. So I have a few years to get that into a running driving car if he wants it. When I have picked them up at school in the camaro, many other kids in their school (k-12)have expressed interest in the cars and think they are cool. Some of it will come down to convenience and affordability/price. In southern California you can drive an older car out here year round, so it is definitely do-able. This may not be the case in other parts of the country, but I would think in the south it would work.

[HawkX66]

Believe none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see/read. This subject can get political very quickly, but I'll avoid some of those comments. I know a bunch of kids, my two sons included, that absolutely love muscle cars. My oldest is studying Mech Engineering at Univ of Mich. Wicked smaht kid. What did I do with him for his first car? Helped him pull the engine out of a 2000 Mustang and build it. That was huge for the both of us. I'll do the same for my 8 yo when the time comes also. I think the biggest issue is the money. You can't touch a decent 69 Camaro etc. for less than $25k or more. What teenager can swing that? Teenage years are where it begins. If you can't get them out of their mother's basement and away from the technology that's rotting their brains we're going to have a lot more problems than we do now. You have a generation that actually would consider and is supporting socialism whole heartedly. I blame the late baby boomers and the next generation after them 100%. They've poisoned our youth. It starts with the parents. They are completely to blame for what is going on. All the way up to your Columbine HS, Sandy Hook Elementary, Aurora Colorado movie theater and all the rest of the shootings. The parent generation should be ashamed of themselves. It's like they hate Americana and are doing everything they can to destroy it. The attack on muscle cars isn't anything new. The libs hate the internal combustion engine and would love nothing more than to see them all go to the crusher. Remember the federal buy back? What was it that Gore spear headed? I think it was $300 a piece for any crushed car. So many boneyards cleared out all the old iron when that happened. Empty boneyards and Greenleaf coming in buying up all the yards and charging 50% of retail for used parts ruined it for many of us.
All of this is very frustrating for those of us that grew up in car culture. It wasn't just a dollar sign like it is now for so many. Buy, mod, flip. Repeat. Until they're all gone.
It's up to us to keep the interest there and teach the youngins what it is that is so addictive about muscle cars.

[crossboss]

Boys,
Thanks for the replies/opinions on this thread. I also posted this same topic at the Boss 302 site, and amazingly everyone has the same sentiment/responses regardless of brand loyalty. We as 'car guys' must stick together and hopefully help the newer generations follow us in our love of 'older' cars.

[Mike S]

 Let's hope that in 20 - 30 years we can still drive these classics on the road given the current political 'green' climate.
My guess, at least in NY, is:
1- An outright ban on older gas powered cars if they can't meet today's stringent emissions.
2- Some politician will see a monetary gain and put on some outrageous carbon tax or another pick pocket fee that leads to the owners keeping them off the road. I'm surprised the latter hasn't been done yet here in NY considering how they add additional fee's/taxes on car registrations already. 

Mike

[ZLP955]

The big auction houses set the trends; as pointed out above, one unexpectedly high sale of an import model triggers a sudden increase in perceived value, and folk who speculate to appreciate will always go with what they think is the next big thing.
Culturally the popularity of vehicles, fashion, music etc all follows what seems to be about a cyclic 30-year lag. The 60's became cool again in the 90's, the 70's in the 'noughties', and so on.
Ask yourself what sports/performance cars of the late 80's/early 90's stand out - maybe the Corvette ZR1, but what else? Not really many iconic US domestic models that I can think of......

[BULLITT65]

I agree. So when the 2005 High HP Mustang (2007 Shelby),  maybe the 2008 Hemi Challengers, and then 2010 Camaro or 2013 ZL-1, hit the 25 yr or 30 yr old mark, those could mark the next up swing. I think many of the owners of the 6cylinder models will reminisce about the car they had and may want the higher HP version of what they had. So that would be in about 16- 20 years. Of course the current Mustang /Shelby looks ok and has decent HP, and the Challenger keeps on adding HP and special models. Unfortunately while Camaro has decent HP, the market does not seem too thrilled with the looks, according to the sales Vs Mustang and Challenger.