GM will give you an options list for your car

[jay j]

i seen a few ebay auctions 69 z28s   owners say that they got options list for the car from gm is true gm will send you a copy of your car options?

[william]

If the car was delivered in Canada you can acquire information on the car from the Zone Office there-they kept all of their import shipping records. Many years ago they just copied the page the car was on which provided the same info for the other cars on the page including key#s. Today they send a letter listing the options and selling dealer.

Easily forged, slightly better than nothing.

True paper work is the original window label or corresponding shippers' copy, protect-o-plate or dealer invoice.

[tom]

Just my opinion, while all paperwork can be forged, and todays technology makes it even easier, at least if you have a Canadian car you can request the paperwork from GM. If you have purchased a car with forged GM Canada paperwork and the seller has not vanished, you should be able to pursue them in court.

I have no paperwork, but for a base 307 glide, who needs it.
Good luck,

Tom

[Jerry@CHP]

The paperwork forgery is even a bigger problem today.  I saw a lot of fake paperwork while at the BJ auction this past January, and much of it was being represented as real.  This will be a real problem for future buyers in the hobby.  While I travel year round to inspect cars, some of the fake paperwork I see looks very good and will get by the average Camaro enthusiast.  This is a problem.

Jerry

[jdv69z]

Jerry,

How do yo verify a car? Do you inspect the actual components and date codes on the car itself, as well as any paperwork that may be available? Is it difficult to spot phony paperwork?

If you check the components and date codes on the car itself, I assume it needs to be put on a lift, etc. to get at the different components that need checking? eg. rear end?

Do you find cars that are not what the owner believes they are? Seems like that situation would be a sticky wicket!

Jimmy V.

[Jerry@CHP]

Takes about 1 1/2 to 2 hours to certify a car.  When I'm on the road, I treat all cars the same way.  The stampings and trim tag are verified and compared to the photo data base that I have.  Any incorrect components are flagged on the report, any repro parts are flagged on the report and any original paperwork is examined and copied.  Dozens of photos are taken of all of the above.  Very much like we do when we're certifying the cars in the Legend Concours judging at the Camaro Nationals.  I also have to be able to get under the car to examine everything.  If there is no lift, then I need a roll jack and jack stands.  I tell everyone this ahead of time before I get there.

This job is like anything else, you need the years of experience to really go on the road and do this.  People who are not hands-on with working on cars are at a disadvantage.  In some cases, I have to remove the cowl panel, valve covers and alternator. 

I noticed comments on another site about certifications and what's involved.  Some of the comments seemed to think that when you pay to have an appraiser come out to verify and certify your car, it's a guy with a pocket protector wearing thick glasses and just checking off a list or boxes on an appraisal form.  I can assure everyone that what I do is a lot more involved, trust me.  Every report that I write takes time and it's a long tedious process.  When I sign my name to a report, everything has to be clear as I never know when I can be taken to court as an expert witness........and I've been in a court room more times than I'd like to say.  With all the fraud going on today, judges are becoming more aware about classic cars, their values, and when someone is ripped off.

There are also ethics rules that have to be followed.  There are protocols that have to be followed as a licensed certified appraiser too.  And if you break those rules, you can lose your licensing and privileges if you are not consistent or honest with all certifications that you perform.  Again, this is just the short version of what's involved.

Being I have dedicated most of my life to these vehicles, it's a labor of love to do what I do.  The fact that I've been around these cars since they were new does help in my processes as a hobbyist and certified appraiser.  I've been hands-on since I was 19 years old, but let me assure you this, I am still learning more about these cars at middle age.  This is an on-going process that will continue way past my lifetime I'm sure.  As long as there are people who appreciate these vehicles as we do today, the hobby and interest will continue for many years to come.  Seems we always learn something new at the Camaro Nationals ever year!

The only tragedy that I see is there are many involved in the hobby today that are not car enthusiasts, many are investors.  In the long run this does hurt the average guy who wants to buy a '69 Camaro to rekindle a car that they might have bought new.  The cars are more expensive today.  1969 Z28s are off the charts now.  Everyone wants one!  Considering there were 20,000 made, average '69 Z28s that I inspect today with suspect drive trains, no paperwork and many component issues are selling in the $70-80K range.  It's just part of the hobby that we all have to deal with.  If you own a nice pedigree Camaro today, count your blessings.  From what I see on the road for sale today, there is not much out there.  All of the nice cars are in homes under a car cover.

Jerry     

[sd1968z28]

hi jerry, this is jason from south dakota.  i am getting the engine for my 68 this week.  i assume you will need pics of certain things for verification.  please let me know what you want to see so i can look at this very closely before purchace.  this is a lot of money to spend for a hoax so i want to be 100% sure this is the original engine.

[Jerry@CHP]

Check the block pad, all date codes, all components and that's about it.

JM

[jdv69z]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the overview of how you certify a Camaro, as well as your comments regarding values on Z/28's with suspect drive trains, etc. I do have a 69 Z with original drive train, etc. It runs great and looks great, but it is no show car; eg. original white vinyl top is starting to pull up in places, and other typical wear issues. Still, when I pull  the cover off (yup, me too!) this 40 year old car, it still gives a thrill; and I've owned it for 25 years. It boggles my mind to hear 70-80K price ranges, I just do not think of my car as being that valuable. Best investment I ever drove around! Of course it was never intended to be an investment when I bought it. It was all about fun. And still is.

Jimmy V.

[Jerry@CHP]

The investment thing is just something that's happened to our hobby.  I tell anyone who is interested in a Camaro to buy it because you want it, love it, and will enjoy it.  That's the bottom line IMO.  Many ask me where the market will be in two years, I have no clue. 

What amazes me the most is 80% of the people interest in these cars today weren't even driving or born with these cars were new.  I haven't figured that out yet.  I suspect it's because of a personal story with an older brother, parent or guy at the local gas station owning a Camaro or something along these lines. 

If you love the cars, and you're 40-ish or younger, you can't imagine what a thrill it was to go down to the local dealer and see them brand new!

Jerry

[PURESS]

Jerry .....I do envy you for being able to go to the car lot and see them sitting there...but I will never forget being a young kid seeing my first camaro up close at the park where young kids hanged out. I told myself then that I was going to own one....Dad said no cars until out of high school...I worked all through high school..and in June 0f 1977 I bought my 69 and you know what...I STILL HAVE IT....scott

[Jerry@CHP]

Scott,

That's a great story.  I know that there are many more like yours I'm sure.

Jerry

[jdv69z]

Another story:

I work for a hardware distributor, and overheard a customer in our lobby recently talking to one of our salespeople. When I heard his name, I went out and asked him if he was Dave who had owned the fathom green 68 Z/28 back in 68 that I used to drool over. I had known his younger brother somewhat. He was in fact the original owner of that car, and he smiled as he recalled blowing away Covettes and Chevelles at the drag strip with his little 302 back then. (Not sure the level of exaggeration) A legendary car from day one! It was interesting to note the disappointed tone in his voice when he stated that he had traded the Camaro in for a Vette.

Jimmy V.
   

[RamAirDave]

What amazes me the most is 80% of the people interest in these cars today weren't even driving or born with these cars were new.  I haven't figured that out yet.  I suspect it's because of a personal story with an older brother, parent or guy at the local gas station owning a Camaro or something along these lines. 

Interesting you mention that.  I would think I am definitely in the younger demographic when it comes to these cars.   Ive read your book (many times) since before I was in Jr. high.  I met you in STL back in 92, and my dad was a rookie judge in your group at that show.

I was born and raised around the restoration of these cars.  I'm always studying and learning more all the time.  It has now continued on to me owning my own restoration shop now.  Many seem to be very confused when they learn that a particular car was built by me.  Kind of funny at times, actually.

That being said, there are very few in my age group that are really into these cars.  Sure they like them and all, but really dont know much about them.  Mention "date code" or what the prices the cars/parts are, most just shake their head and have no grasp on what that's all about.

There are a few of us out there, but not many.

[Ron C.]

Jerry,you know how much I wanted my 67z back, and finally got it back, I regret selling it in 87 and since then all my friends said what ever happend to that white camaro you had? blah blah blah you shouldnt have sold it allways came out at the end of the conversation. Jerry I will never let go of this car again. I dont remember the 67Z cars because in 67 I was only 8 yrs old but I do remember a certian cortez silver 69Z this kid had around the corner,man it was loud and you could hear it comeing from around the corner.The kid down at the end of the street had a 64 427 ford fairlane and my next door neighbor had a new 1970 hornet SC 360 man there was a lot of raceing going on around here