Cross-Ram VS Ford's IR Dominators

[crossboss]

Chevy Camaros did not use a unique head for the Trans-Am series in that era although the factory did tool up and do development on a special head and intake set-up that was in response to the threat posed by the Boss 302. These were canted valve or semi-hemi heads as seen in the following article.  https://hotrodenginetech.com/1969-z28-canted-valve-302/

After much testing and development, these were found to not make any more appreciable horsepower than worked over stock 2.02 production heads. They were never made in enough quantity to qualify for the series and the effort was dropped.  It's too bad because they sure do look awesome.

Jon,
These are the heads you are referring to from the article. IF my memory is correct, I believe Smokey had some input on the designs. They do look very similar to a Boss 302/351 Cleveland cylinder head. I believe Chevy had it right, use what you have. The Boss heads were way too large.
Click on pic to enlarge.

[camaroboy68ss]

Chevy Camaros did not use a unique head for the Trans-Am series in that era although the factory did tool up and do development on a special head and intake set-up that was in response to the threat posed by the Boss 302. These were canted valve or semi-hemi heads as seen in the following article.  https://hotrodenginetech.com/1969-z28-canted-valve-302/

After much testing and development, these were found to not make any more appreciable horsepower than worked over stock 2.02 production heads. They were never made in enough quantity to qualify for the series and the effort was dropped.  It's too bad because they sure do look awesome.

Jon,
These are the heads you are referring to from the article. IF my memory is correct, I believe Smokey had some input on the designs. They do look very similar to a Boss 302/351 Cleveland cylinder head. I believe Chevy had it right, use what you have. The Boss heads were way too large.
Click on pic to enlarge.

Smokey did have a hand and ended up with a few of the engines as payment when Chevy abandoned the project. I believe Smokey tried working on developing them more, but never got any better results. I know one of those engines got stuffed into a 68 Camaro. They did look cool and with the crossram setup were quite an oddball looking small block. 

[crossboss]

Chevy Camaros did not use a unique head for the Trans-Am series in that era although the factory did tool up and do development on a special head and intake set-up that was in response to the threat posed by the Boss 302. These were canted valve or semi-hemi heads as seen in the following article.  https://hotrodenginetech.com/1969-z28-canted-valve-302/

After much testing and development, these were found to not make any more appreciable horsepower than worked over stock 2.02 production heads. They were never made in enough quantity to qualify for the series and the effort was dropped.  It's too bad because they sure do look awesome.

Jon,
These are the heads you are referring to from the article. IF my memory is correct, I believe Smokey had some input on the designs. They do look very similar to a Boss 302/351 Cleveland cylinder head. I believe Chevy had it right, use what you have. The Boss heads were way too large.
Click on pic to enlarge.

Smokey did have a hand and ended up with a few of the engines as payment when Chevy abandoned the project. I believe Smokey tried working on developing them more, but never got any better results. I know one of those engines got stuffed into a 68 Camaro. They did look cool and with the crossram setup were quite an oddball looking small block.

Yep. Those heads with the Cross Ram are wild! I'll bet to a casual observer, most people would guess its a Big Block..lol

[william]

Yunick briefly worked under De Lorean at Chevrolet. First project he inherited was the sb hemi-head. He described it a "...one half-million dollar trip to Shitsville." He gave up on it after three months. Claimed around a dozen engines were built along with 200 sets of parts.

It wasn't just a matter of parts. The block had to be modified for pushrod clearance and a different cam was required.

[70z28lt1]

Interesting in that photo of the semi-hemi head the absence of basic roller rockers.  Still using the error-prone and heat producing stamped steel rockers.  Comments?

[camaroboy68ss]

Interesting in that photo of the semi-hemi head the absence of basic roller rockers.  Still using the error-prone and heat producing stamped steel rockers.  Comments?

My guess would be they were using as much off the shelf stuff they could. If the intent was to actually make the engine available to the public, via RPO or COPO, it would have left with the stamped rockers as they were not going design a roller on a very low volume engine. The option price would have been extremely high most likely as i look at how expensive the ZL-1 option was for Gibb and that was no where near the development work than designing the semi hemi head and the more special parts would have made the engine that much hard to sell.

[JohnSlack]

Interesting in that photo of the semi-hemi head the absence of basic roller rockers.  Still using the error-prone and heat producing stamped steel rockers.  Comments?

My guess would be they were using as much off the shelf stuff they could. If the intent was to actually make the engine available to the public, via RPO or COPO, it would have left with the stamped rockers as they were not going design a roller on a very low volume engine. The option price would have been extremely high most likely as i look at how expensive the ZL-1 option was for Gibb and that was no where near the development work than designing the semi hemi head and the more special parts would have made the engine that much hard to sell.

IF Chevrolet was going to homologate the semi hemi can't valve head for Trans Am it would have required the sale of the correct amount of production units. SCCA got bit by FoMoCo and their Tunnelport heads in 1968. By 1969 SCCA was verifying that production was being met. And for 1970 the numbers produced for homologation went up drastically. That engine would have had to be sellable to the public.
John

[crossboss]

Interesting in that photo of the semi-hemi head the absence of basic roller rockers.  Still using the error-prone and heat producing stamped steel rockers.  Comments?

My guess would be they were using as much off the shelf stuff they could. If the intent was to actually make the engine available to the public, via RPO or COPO, it would have left with the stamped rockers as they were not going design a roller on a very low volume engine. The option price would have been extremely high most likely as i look at how expensive the ZL-1 option was for Gibb and that was no where near the development work than designing the semi hemi head and the more special parts would have made the engine that much hard to sell.

IF Chevrolet was going to homologate the semi hemi can't valve head for Trans Am it would have required the sale of the correct amount of production units. SCCA got bit by FoMoCo and their Tunnelport heads in 1968. By 1969 SCCA was verifying that production was being met. And for 1970 the numbers produced for homologation went up drastically. That engine would have had to be sellable to the public.
John

The same holds true for Pontiac's Tunnel Port 303 T/A engine. That said, Pontiac had in my opinion a 'better chance' to become production worthy. PMD engineers had envisioned 303, 366, 400 and 428 versions of the TP engines. Too bad the SB Chevy canted valve, and the Pontiac TP engines never made it into production…that would have been awesome competition on the track and in the showrooms!

[PHAT69AMX]

Muscle Car Review June 2011 - the 302 in this Camaro has those Heads on it does it not?

[Oldtimer]

Not sure this is the right place, but Bring a Trailer just posted this auction:

Ford Cross Boss Intake and Autolite 875 Carburetor

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/original-ford-cross-boss-intake-matching-autolite-850-carburator/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019-01-11

[crossboss]

Not sure this is the right place, but Bring a Trailer just posted this auction:

Ford Cross Boss Intake and Autolite 875 Carburetor

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/original-ford-cross-boss-intake-matching-autolite-850-carburator/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019-01-11

Yes, seen that one for sale. It belongs to one of the members over at the Boss 302 site. I used to have one of those on my car. I drove it on the street and Vintaged raced with the Cross-Boss and Inline carb. BTW, Its not a 'bolt on and go' deal…requires lots of tuning.

[crossboss]

For reference here is a pic of my Cross-Boss and Autolite Inline from my old Boss car.
Sorry for the bad picture quality.
Click on pic to enlarge.

[Swede70]

Greetings,

A couple of other things to toss into the mix here.  For reviewing the old softbound copy (it's orange and absurdly expensive used) of Don Farr's BOSS 302: Ford's Trans Am Ponycar, plus for searching online a bit, one will pick up on a preliminary design for a Cross BOSS intake that really was more akin to a 'cross' configuration in the style of the Chevrolet cross ram and the Edelbrock STR (street tunnel ram) designs.  Here too the identification lettering is cast-in.  If anything, the wording is larger and certainly unmistakable.  With the development of the Autolite inline carburetor and the parallel development of the single and double inline configuration intake lids, apparently they clung to the 'CROSS BOSS' name even as we might now be voicing the words 'BOSS INLINE' with equal reverence.  See the following thread and view the four inset photos half way down on the first page to spy the original Cross BOSS intake design then: 

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=54261.0

Also, and just in passing, the Holley Dominator carburetor was largely nameless across much of '69, instead being identified as the 4500 series.  Hence the smart alecky answer to whether AMC or even Ford 'ran Dominators...' in '69 is no; i.e. they ran 4500's in point of fact.  It is recommended not to walk into a bar, consume alcoholic beverages in excess and answer so amidst heated conversation...

The announcement of a contest by Holley/division of Colt Industries in the November '69 of Hot Rod Magazine speaks of a contest to name it, with the results to be announced at a drag meet known as the NHRA Winternationals held at Pomona when the '69 Trans Am season and the era of multiple carburetors was all over but the shouting.  Given this is where NHRA's new Pro Stock category was debuted and the embrace of the design by competitors across the class, it all makes sense.  Through struggling I am to turn up a precise date, it would seem the '70 Winternationals would take us into early February of the new year at the very least.  With this, any 'Dominator' reference made before whatever contest decision was arrived at by Holley post November 15th of '69 is to be getting ahead of the story strictly speaking.  As for the naming contest, you had to have your submission for a name in before November 15th, 1969 as identified in the Hot Rod Magazine print advertisement, hence my identification of the cut off.  And lastly, it would seem the winner was flown out to attend the NHRA event and gifted an example of the carburetor on site.  Can you imagine it - ...gee Dad, do you think we could fit it to the new Maverick at home? 

Funny in a sense it is to contemplate other entries and suggestions contemplated and ultimately dismissed by Holley here; i.e. 'The Main Drain', maybe 'The Big Leak', or perhaps 'The Certain Sucking Sound'?  Passing reference to the roll out of the 4500 is afforded within the following brief historical review of Holley's product, and is worth a quick glance.  See: 

https://www.rodauthority.com/tech-stories/fuel-cooling/historic-holley-carburetor-milestones/

Asbestos suit donned, although just light trimming and editing of the main story is all that this constitutes...

Mike K./Swede70

[crossboss]

Greetings,

A couple of other things to toss into the mix here.  For reviewing the old softbound copy (it's orange and absurdly expensive used) of Don Farr's BOSS 302: Ford's Trans Am Ponycar, plus for searching online a bit, one will pick up on a preliminary design for a Cross BOSS intake that really was more akin to a 'cross' configuration in the style of the Chevrolet cross ram and the Edelbrock STR (street tunnel ram) designs.  Here too the identification lettering is cast-in.  If anything, the wording is larger and certainly unmistakable.  With the development of the Autolite inline carburetor and the parallel development of the single and double inline configuration intake lids, apparently they clung to the 'CROSS BOSS' name even as we might now be voicing the words 'BOSS INLINE' with equal reverence.  See the following thread and view the four inset photos half way down on the first page to spy the original Cross BOSS intake design then: 

http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=54261.0

Also, and just in passing, the Holley Dominator carburetor was largely nameless across much of '69, instead being identified as the 4500 series.  Hence the smart alecky answer to whether AMC or even Ford 'ran Dominators...' in '69 is no; i.e. they ran 4500's in point of fact.  It is recommended not to walk into a bar, consume alcoholic beverages in excess and answer so amidst heated conversation...

The announcement of a contest by Holley/division of Colt Industries in the November '69 of Hot Rod Magazine speaks of a contest to name it, with the results to be announced at a drag meet known as the NHRA Winternationals held at Pomona when the '69 Trans Am season and the era of multiple carburetors was all over but the shouting.  Given this is where NHRA's new Pro Stock category was debuted and the embrace of the design by competitors across the class, it all makes sense.  Through struggling I am to turn up a precise date, it would seem the '70 Winternationals would take us into early February of the new year at the very least.  With this, any 'Dominator' reference made before whatever contest decision was arrived at by Holley post November 15th of '69 is to be getting ahead of the story strictly speaking.  As for the naming contest, you had to have your submission for a name in before November 15th, 1969 as identified in the Hot Rod Magazine print advertisement, hence my identification of the cut off.

Funny in a sense it is to contemplate other entries and suggestions contemplated and ultimately dismissed by Holley here; i.e. 'The Main Drain', maybe 'The Big Leak', or perhaps 'The Certain Sucking Sound'?  Passing reference to the roll out of the 4500 is afforded within the following brief historical review of Holley's product, and is worth a quick glance.  See: 

https://www.rodauthority.com/tech-stories/fuel-cooling/historic-holley-carburetor-milestones/

Asbestos suit donned, although just light trimming and editing of the main story is all that this constitutes...

Mike K./Swede70

Mike,
The 'original' Cross-Boss intake was designed for two Holley carbs as you stated. It DID require many special engine components (expensive) to make it actually useable. The second Cross-Boss intake that was developed for the Autolite Inline carb (btw, Ford did intend to call it the Dominator/Max Performance carb. in early designs!) is still a cross ram design and is a leaner/cleaner design (no overhang on the sides) because of the Inline carbs 'inline' design. That said, it was interesting that all the manufactures created designs to 'out do the others' attempting to gain the upper hand for winning races. That WAS a special time that we will never see again in motorsports competition.
--Scott

[BULLITT65]

A very cool looking set up, but after reading a bit about the development and usage, it seems it was all show and no go for racing, as the stock carburetor set up out performed it. Here is one link that gives some more details:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mufp-0609-1967-shelby-mustang-gt350/