Another Garnet Red Z28.. sorta....

[cook_dw]

Nevermind found it.  Also FWIW I couldn't see the pic in Gary's first post until I created a login over on Tri-5


https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194134&highlight=X33+code+Berger+%2769+Z%2F28




So let me make sure I understand a couple of you that are shitting on the car because it was modified from stock form and now is not considered a Z any longer?  Is there photos showing the trim tag or legitimacy of the sellers claims of it being a Z?

[X33RS]

"Do you guys feel better now? I realize it wasn't the cars owner that was the OP but my God is it any wonder so many people are just lurkers on car websites and don't want to post anything?"
I could not agree more.
I happen to have an old war horse without its original 302 and 4 speed. It was a drag car that was thrashed heavily with a 427 and a THM400.  When I was a kid, a big block was a COMMON transplant into a Z28 to give it more fire power to match the looks on the street or strip.  I don't represent my car as numbers matching etc. and would never consider it.  It IS a legit Z28 by birth.  Do I enjoy it less because it doesn't have the 302 under the hood?  Not a bit.  And, I have no issues with folks who put in the work and have the luck to get their cars to the point where they are perfectly representing what was driven off the line at Norwood.  But disparaging fellow enthusiasts who do not have the same ability for whatever reason is not my modus operandi.  And that is the main reason I will never join a club dedicated to a particular model.  I ran into this same mentality with my Vette at an NCRS event and that soured me forever.
So to all the guys with cars that have the pedigree and not the components:  Ignore the criticism, enjoy your car and know there are plenty of other car guys out there that are doing the same thing...
Let the flaming begin.

I'm of the same thought process.  We had a survivor Bloomington certified 71 454 vette with 32k original miles.  Got all kinds of flack from the vette crowd because we proceeded to drive it, wife drove it daily for about a year and a half to work, I even took it to the dragstrip and had some fun, ran 14.30s at 98 mph with 3.08 gears.  I was shunned by the vette crowd, LOL.  We sold the car 3 years later with 46k on it for twice what I paid, and had a ball with it.  Had other vettes but never associated myself with that crowd after or since.
   We still own Fords, Chevys, Pontiacs etc...and that's not going to change.  I like them all, which is why I don't care to join a particular club or group with that one track mind mentality.  Just bores me.
   More related to the subject, I had 2 good friends that both owned real X code Z/28's.  Both ironically were Cortez Silver cars, restored and very nicely done.  One ran a 502 in it, and the other ran a 406 sbc in it.  Both retained 4 speeds and 12 bolts and for the most part were basically stock Z/28's with engine transplants.  I viewed them as no less of car, I liked them both, and they were real Z/28's, just missing their engines, which isn't unusual as most muscle cars lost their original engines, even when just a few years old.  One caught some flack later when he decided to put a tunnel ram on the 502 and cut a hole in the original ZL2 hood, lol.    But that's the kind of stuff everyone did back then.   They also weren't fetching the kind of money they do now so....   Times change.  I don't fault anyone.  We're supposed to have fun with these cars, that's what I own them for.

[X33RS]

Nevermind found it.  Also FWIW I couldn't see the pic in Gary's first post until I created a login over on Tri-5


https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194134&highlight=X33+code+Berger+%2769+Z%2F28




So let me make sure I understand a couple of you that are shitting on the car because it was modified from stock form and now is not considered a Z any longer?  Is there photos showing the trim tag or legitimacy of the sellers claims of it being a Z?

I like it!!   That looks pretty damn good to me.  Typical street machine we always saw in the 70's 80's, just taking it a few steps beyond "day 2".  Regardless of mods, still a real Z if tag is present and untampered which I gather is the case from what I'm reading. I'd own it and drive the wheels off it.   Does he want to trade for a Nomad?     

[janobyte]

Well put x33 agree
Car is pretty, configuration probably low 11, high 10 sec...not scary fast, but enough to suck your gut in a bit, if never rolled that quick,,,fun!

Seems we had this conversation a few years ago. I always figured you can always take them back: Jerry M's record setting 67 Z. If you desire.

Around 16 years mine rolled around with a 406 backed by a 350 full manual trans.Never bothered to take the fender badges off.

I do get however when people get put off by bait words in ads, me, I really don't care that much.

Great site, always helpful, lets not inadvertently insult anybody.

[KurtS]

Let the flaming begin. ( Should read discussion ensues)

And I appreciate where the discussion headed..... I don't think this is an elitist site, nor should it be.

[BULLITT65]

Well put x33 agree
Car is pretty, configuration probably low 11, high 10 sec...not scary fast, but enough to suck your gut in a bit, if never rolled that quick,,,fun!

Seems we had this conversation a few years ago. I always figured you can always take them back: Jerry M's record setting 67 Z. If you desire.

Around 16 years mine rolled around with a 406 backed by a 350 full manual trans.Never bothered to take the fender badges off.

I do get however when people get put off by bait words in ads, me, I really don't care that much.

Great site, always helpful, lets not inadvertently insult anybody.

So I am curious: Jano (or any other member) for this car is the mention of it being an original Z/28 fall under "click bait" or do you think  that it significantly adds to the story fo this car. In other words what did you perceive the seller mentioning it for?

thanks

[janobyte]

Adds to the story of what path a factory performance car took.

[69Z28-RS]

Here is my sole problem with the original ad, and other such ads:

When the Z28 was 'born', it was born in order to run as a road racer in the Trans Am series (5 liter limit), thus the SHP 302, along with mandatory 4-speed, disk brakes, and HD suspension.    The '302' makes the early Z28, just as an all aluminum 427 'makes' a ZL1!   The 'Z28' emblem came long later simply to differentiate is as what it was .. a specially configured car for 'road racing' in a 5-liter limit category!

As far as I'm concerned, once a big block is installed, it is NO LONGER a '67-69 Z28~    If the seller had stated that the car was born as a Z28 in 1969, but the car now housed a big block engine as a drag racer/street racer/etc, it would not have bothered me, but one cannot have their cake and eat it too ... It's also misleading to people who don't know what a Z28 is... which would cause some to go away believing a '69 Z28 had an optional big block'!  WRONG!

Saying it's a '69 Z28 with a big block is a contradiction in terms, and that was why I optioned the title of my post with .... 'sorta'... 

[janobyte]

Wasn't out there trying to pass it off as a 1000 point 6 figure car. He has
something cool, bored, wants to trade. Sort of a waste of time
stirring a debate.

Good note, from an old post,(John Z) picked up a correct water pump from Mock. Way more then I thought I'd ever pay for a pump,,but I'm worth it. 

[cook_dw]

Gary, your line of thinking would lend to someone having all the "correct" components for a Z on a 6cyl rolling chassis and that you would consider it a Z.


BTW this car has a legit trim tag, vin & doc proving it was ordered by Berger Chevrolet.

[RS Copo]

That's the Camaro I was referring to.I didn't mean to put anyone on the spot when I posted about 1:00 am after a long day(try dealing with a RacePak for 2 weeks that shows the clutch graph when and if it wants to,lol.) But I agree with Kurt,it's a good discussion.
    I also have long dealt with people,and I would not lump Bullett65,Gary or Kelley in with them, who gave me grief for 30 years when raced my Copo. It was amazing how many 'experts' said X-11's were 350's and there was no such thing as a RS Copo.

[X33RS]

Gary, your line of thinking would lend to someone having all the "correct" components for a Z on a 6cyl rolling chassis and that you would consider it a Z.


BTW this car has a legit trim tag, vin & doc proving it was ordered from Berger Chevrolet.

Well there ya go.  That seals it for me.  It's an original Z and you can't take that away from it.  Once a Z always a Z

Besides the road racing deal Gary, there were plenty that tore up the dragstrips as well, and even held some records and won some championships.  Strickler comes to mind.  So they were well respected little drag cars too.

Shucks I've been thinking about pulling the 302 out of mine too.  With my wife daily driving it she's put nearly 10,000 miles on the fresh build already.  I figure why wear it out when I have a fresh 355 sitting on the stand.  Dress it like the 302 and she can put all the miles she wants on it.
But I guess it wouldn't be a Z/28 anymore, lol.

[RS Copo]

A bit more info on the car.My friend recalls the 302 was already gone when the second owner purchased the car in the very early 70's.It was tubbed around 1990 and had almost no street miles on it when he sold it to the present owner around 96.
If nothing else we are giving Mike and the car some more exposure. GLWS.

[cook_dw]

If he would consider just selling the car I think it would go a lot faster.  But for now he only wants a trade..  No matter what its history during its life as a racer its a X33 D80 car.  No matter how you slice it; it's a Z car.   I wouldn't care if it had a Cummins diesel between the fenders I'd still consider it a Z.  For the record the car is very, very clean and appears to present great.  If I were in the market for a 69 Z that I wanted to race this would be the car I would consider.

[RS Copo]

If he would consider just selling the car I think it would go a lot faster.  But for now he only wants a trade..  No matter what its history during its life as a racer its a X33 D80 car.  No matter how you slice it; it's a Z car.   I wouldn't care if it had a Cummins diesel between the fenders I'd still consider it a Z.  For the record the car is very, very clean and appears to present great.  If I were in the market for a 69 Z that I wanted to race this would be the car I would consider.

He had the car listed on RacingJunk a while back.I think he would sell or trade it.