68 RS With Z28 Motor - Was this a Dealer Install Option

[uscrichter]

4 piston in the front as well as the rear on JL8 package? Like Corvettes

[bertfam]

4 piston in the front as well as the rear on JL8 package?

Correct. More info HERE.

Ed

[Top38]

back to the car in question, finally got the paper work, nothing there to confirm it's a Z28 car so it's likely not. Assuming the CE 302 motor is in good running condition, what is the going rate for this motor?

[Kelley W King]

 You probably want to post the cast date?

[69Z28-RS]

I would not sell that motor until you know ALL the information about your car; it *could* turn out that the CE was installed in this car by a dealer as a warranty replacement, and if so, that is the BEST block you can have for your car...

[68camaroz28]

I would not sell that motor until you know ALL the information about your car; it *could* turn out that the CE was installed in this car by a dealer as a warranty replacement, and if so, that is the BEST block you can have for your car...

100% agree Gary! Need to know what one has before doing anything.

[169INDY]

I would not sell that motor until you know ALL the information about your car; it *could* turn out that the CE was installed in this car by a dealer as a warranty replacement, and if so, that is the BEST block you can have for your car...

I am in the same Boat; interestingly enough the short block is "hate to use the word" Better engineering wise (??) than the 67/68 (Obviously not better for originality or matching sense)
My 68 has a CE9XXXXX

Having paper on the claim has been very rare, I want to say in all the years I have seen someone produce it ONLY once or twice on line as scanned proof.

Not sure if "TOP38" purchased the car & is asking for a CE302 motor value to part it or what>

JIM

[Top38]

No I have not purchased the car. Based on not having any real documentation that the car is areal Z28, I assume it is not and just has a CE 302 motor. Assuming that, restoring the car with vs without the 302 is where my question is coming from. The intent is not to restore to sell, but drive and have fun for a while. If it's not a real Z28 or it is but can't be proven though documentation, what difference does that make?

The real question is what is this car really worth as it stands now? It is overall a solid car form my quick inspection, needs a total stripping of the paint and redone, interior is good but needs a rug and a headliner. Owner states motor runs good but I haven't heard or drove it yet.

[69Z28-RS]

One could ascertain to 'his own satisfaction', that the car was (or was not) originally a Z28 by careful checking of *everything else*...  ie.  if a car under warranty received a replacement short block via a dealer, then generally ONLY the short block was replaced, so the heads, intake, carburetor (and all other parts installed on the engine) were simply re-installed on the new block.   Does the engine *sound/run* like a 302 should; a Z28/302 short block replaced in a Z28 during warranty would be *correctly* built per Z28 specs by the Flint assembly.   Is the casting number on the block correct for a Z28?  Is the casting date on the block consistent with the PERIOD of the warranty on a '68 Z28?   If the cast date on the CE block is before the car was built, then it is not a warranty CE block *for your car*.    If the cast date on the CE block is significantly AFTER the warranty period for the '68 Z28 then it is likely NOT a warranty CE block for your car.  Check the other parts in the engine compartment like booster, MC, etc

* So check all those parts to ensure that those parts are a) correct for a '68 Z28, and b) dated consistently with the VIN of the automobile (the orig short block being gone prohibits date checking based on the engine)...

* Check the 'other parts' not associated with the replaced short block to ensure they are correct for a Z28 and dated consistently with the car's VIN..  ie.   bell housing PN, transmission (should have a VIN to match the car and be a Muncie 4spd installed on a Z28 in '68), rear end (should be a 12 bolt probably BU? dated consistent with the car's VIN production date.   Check the springs, brakes, *everything* that you can to see whether they are consistent with Z28 production.

* Are there parts installed on the car that are NOT possible for Z28, and they appear to be 'factory installed', then that would be a negative...

IF I checked all those things, and the parts/casting nos/ dates/etc were 'good' for 75-90% of the Z28 parts, then I would feel pretty confident that the car WAS in fact a Z28 from the factory, AND if I wanted a Z28 for myself, to drive, then I would pursue it.   If you only want a Z28 for *resale*, OR if you don't really want a Z28 at all, then do not pursue it.

[169INDY]

GARY Very Well put!
"A preponderance of the evidence"
This preponderance is based on the more convincing evidence and its probable truth or accuracy, and not on the amount of evidence

JIM

[bertfam]

You guys are putting a lot of faith in that CE being a 302! Even if it started out as a 302, after 40 years (and potentially multiple rebuilds), it could be anything! And, there's no proof that this particular engine was a dealer install for THIS car. That's one of the problems with CE engines and no paperwork. No history.

Nothing on this car proves a Z28. All of it could have been added after the car left the factory (like the Rally Sport option!!)

Ed

[Top38]

Ed, I am with you here. I can easily determine if it is a 302 without any disassembly. So the question in my mind anyway, becomes, what's a documented Z28 worth vs a so called real Z28 with no documentation vs a regular Camaro that has all the Z28 parts and is there any real difference between 2 & 3? (Assume all cars are in the condition of this one in question so its apples to apples with out the original numbers matching motor)

[169INDY]

Conversational; "I Think"

Gary & I were giving an opinion on how to approach the "CE" equation on all cars.

I get it the Topic is the Blue beast  pictured above, Sorry I drifted of  in generalities;

Anyone here touched (Inspected personally) this car?

[bertfam]

So the question in my mind anyway, becomes, what's a documented Z28 worth vs a so called real Z28 with no documentation vs a regular Camaro that has all the Z28 parts and is there any real difference between 2 & 3?

A documented Z28 is worth more than an undocumented Z28. An undocumented Z28 is worth more than a Camaro dressed up as a Z28.

What you're will to pay for a car is up to you and no one can help you there.

Ed

[Top38]

Ed

It's been a while, a long while since I was involved with this kind of thing so I have not real feel for what these cars are generally going for these days on the open market which is why I asked, just to get a ballpark number. I did find NADA list values or these cars also.

169

I have seen the car, spent about 15 mins looing at it on a lot. Did not have time to spend anymore that day.

So before I get serious about it I am just trying to get a feel for what's it worth vs typical values of cars on the market now.

I wasn't specifically looking for a Z car, just a good solid car to work with.

thanks