1967 396

[KurtS]

Charley and Jeff:
Simply put, posts like the ones I just deleted are not appropriate and will not be allowed on this site.

[Pacecarjeff]

Thanks Kurt. 
I really just thought that because those 2 67 track cars did not leave the factory
with the L78 engines. Technically they were not.
Really the first L78 might actually be the #3 car owned by PR down here in Florida.
Athough those 2 pace cars have HUGE historical significance - really they are not L78"s.

GM can plan to do somthing, but if they never left production that way - they are not.

When I last saw the track car - it had a cast iron intake and soft lifters. the way it originally was.

[Steve Shauger]

I too want to make sure that the facts regarding pace car#1 are presented accurately.

*Fact the car would have been coded 4N if the original intention was for it to be an L35. 

*The original documentation backs the fact that it was built an L78.

*Fact the car has the original  protecto plate which I dentifies that this car was built as an L78 , 4spd car.

*Engineering subsequently decided to convert the car to a L35/L34 engine and automatic. Possibly for reliability/ ease of driving issues.

So in summary the car was built as an L78 and converted. All of this is documented with engineering work orders.

If anyone has information that is contrary please share it. The histories of these cars are important and our goal should be to present is as accurately as possible. Isn't this what this forum is about...

[Pacecarjeff]

That is the way to present an argument.
Full of rational facts.

So what engine is supposed to be in the car?
I know that no one is going change it, and put a L78 back in?
Doesn't matter what was intended - matters how it was delivered. 

When I look in my assembely manual - L78 is a engine option.
No L78 engine was delivered in that particular car.

If we are talking intent. Do you really think that Grumpy had never installed a L78 in a Camaro?
Don't you think they tested these designs before they made them available to the public?

I am sure there were a WHOLE BUNCH of L78 Camaros made before these 3 track cars.
So where REALLY are the first 20 L78 Camaros - likley destroyed IMO.

So keeping that in mind - we are talking original delivery configuration not intent.

[Steve Shauger]

The car left the assembly line as an L78 4spd and delivered to the tech center as such, with the protecto plate in the glove box documenting the orig installed drivetrain info.  Subsequent changes were made at the tech center.

I would like to thank Charley for sharing his car, by showing it at his expense for all to see at several show a year. Two of which were the GM Nationals. This allowed the researchers/ historians the ability to connect the dots and identify the cars historical past in full verifiable detail.

[Jerry@CHP]

When I get a break in the action, I will contact B. Jenkins again to see if he will allow me to get copies of the paperwork that he has on file.  I suspect that this paperwork will aid all of us who continue to do the research on these cars.

Jerry

[Jerry@CHP]

Oh,

Of special mention, the Jenkins car was on the cover of Super Stock magazine in late 67 or Jan 1968.  Can't remember for sure, but I have the magazine.  Nice article on the car and there are some shots of the original fuel line on the car.  Up until these photos were discovered, all vendors were making an incorrect fuel line for 1967 L78s.  Now they are made correctly thanks to this article.

This car was also a factory built heater delete 375. 

Jerry

[JoeC]

What was the first race for the Jenkins 67 Camaro?
The Winternationals are normally in Feb but his car is 03D ?
The car was the 1967 Super Stock national champ so he could not have missed many races .
It would be interesting to find the first race date for this car.

I know the Grump would go to GM Tech center for meetings and get parts. I bought the 1970 Camaro prototype cowl hood from him which he said he got from Chevy engineering. (It was going to be scrapped) I picked it up at Jenkins Comp. shop and he showed me a prototype tall deck block so who knows what else Chevy gave him.

[sam]

January 1968 Super Stock and Drag Illustrated. Grump on the cover changing the motor. Also a good article on the Musser Bros. 1967 Z/28 running SS/E.

[Jerry@CHP]

Joe,

Jenkins did not make the Winternationals race with his L78.  Didn't take delivery until the end of March '67.  I will have to look up the history on this car.  I do know that he did set the NHRA national record with the car at one of the first outings.  Ran Super Stock "C" at that time.  He did win the NHRA US Nationals and got to the semi finals at the NHRA World Finals with this car.  Jenkins would have won the World Championship but he red lighted against Ed Miller in the semi final round. 

I know that Jenkins won other NHRA events during the 1967 season, I just don't know which ones.  I also know quite a few people who ordered 375 horse Camaros after watching Jenkins have such a stellar season.  By the time most hot rod enthusiasts knew about the 375 horse Camaro, the 67 model year was over.  Only people who were in tune during the spring and summer of 67 were high performance dealerships and hot rodders at the drag strip.

Jerry 

Jerry

[Rich]

I'm on travel this week, so my thanks to Kurt for providing some high-level guidance to this thread to keep this topic from going high order.  I appreciate that emotions can run high when a favorite subject is discussed, but we need to 1) focus on facts, 2) avoid personal attacks, and 3) if attacked - take the high road in your reply (or don't reply at all) - believe me, those that do this are noticed and respected.

CRG has no wish to have to tightly moderate these various boards, but we also will not tolerate uncivil on-forum behavior.  When needed we will censure posts, and we have in extreme cases revoked forum rights (only once in our history).

As to the technical content that was - in part - being discussed, I have a few opinions, but I also believe there is a shortage of facts, and while several pronouncements and assessments could be made, I think the primary question asked does not yet have a clean answer, requires more research, and - may not ever have a clean answer.

All three of these cars have a unique and respected history, and should be enjoyed for what they each bring to the hobby.

Rich