crayon marks behind rear seat

[Design Drive Motors]

Has anyone ever seen a Black Z28 Crayon Marking?  It looks like many of the cars have the color in the code, but would black be a "B"?  Anyone have any pictures of such a Car?

[firstgenaddict]

No it would not be a B unless it had BLUE interior.

[Design Drive Motors]

Gotcha, thank you.  After doing some research on paint codes and tags, I found the information.  If anything, it looks like this code could be an X (normal mark without a color code) or a E if it was black, as those were the color codes from 67 and 68.  In 69 trim tag codes were numbered, but may not be reflected in the crayon mark.  But it looks like these things were just indicators, not smoking guns. 

Thanks again for your help!

[firstgenaddict]

E is deepwater Blue.
A is BLACK in 67-68

[Design Drive Motors]

E is deepwater Blue.
A is BLACK in 67-68

Yes, I see the exterior color codes are different from interior codes.  My understanding from this thread is that crayon was the interior codes, and according to http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#InteriorColors, I thought E to be black. 

If the Exterior color is marked here, then "A" would be black.  But I don't really know what these mean as there are a lot of cars marked with an "X", but some cars seem to have the interior color code, and others seem to have no pattern.  But I am just wondering.  It seems if a car was marked "B" it may have meant a blue interior. 

But it seems all speculation as this was not a part of the car that was verified by the factory before the car left.  The trim tags, VINs and vin Stamping were probably verified, but I would imagine not crayon marks.  So any human error here may not have been corrected before the cars left is all I am saying.

[jdv69z]

The marking behind the rear seat indicated to the assembly line workers at Fisher Body what body that they were building. The reason it is written here is that some line operations were done before the trim tag was installed. So it was the way the body build was identified, and any error here would have resulted in an incorrect body being built. Not a small problem.

[69 SS 350 X-55]

My 05B X 55 cowl tag has yellow X5 on rear bulkhead.

[Design Drive Motors]

The marking behind the rear seat indicated to the assembly line workers at Fisher Body what body that they were building. The reason it is written here is that some line operations were done before the trim tag was installed. So it was the way the body build was identified, and any error here would have resulted in an incorrect body being built. Not a small problem.

Yes, that would be a problem. It’s pretty amazing to think about it. When I visited the Mercedes plant in Germany, the parts essentially get handed to the installers on arms. As the part gets “handed” from arm to arm, it’s scanned and verified at each step.

Do you know why some come with an X and others with a color code?  This is pretty cool history to learn about. Or is X a color code of sorts? 

[firstgenaddict]

X is the default... meaning Black- (most interior colors had black painted trim)
All 4 of the houndstooth had black painted trim - all the black and white interiors had black painted trim. Every color interior except Greens, Red, and Blue had black painted interior trim -

[Design Drive Motors]

X is the default... meaning Black- (most interior colors had black painted trim)
All 4 of the houndstooth had black painted trim - all the black and white interiors had black painted trim. Every color interior except Greens, Red, and Blue had black painted interior trim -

Thanks!  That's good information, and makes a lot of sense.  The code is for the paint on the inside of the body, but not necessarily for the interior fabric or external color of the car.  Correct?

[z28z11]

The marking behind the rear seat indicated to the assembly line workers at Fisher Body what body that they were building. The reason it is written here is that some line operations were done before the trim tag was installed. So it was the way the body build was identified, and any error here would have resulted in an incorrect body being built. Not a small problem.

Yes, that would be a problem. It’s pretty amazing to think about it. When I visited the Mercedes plant in Germany, the parts essentially get handed to the installers on arms. As the part gets “handed” from arm to arm, it’s scanned and verified at each step.

Do you know why some come with an X and others with a color code?  This is pretty cool history to learn about. Or is X a color code of sorts? 

My X77 (January car) has the X7 on the bulkhead. Le Mans, black std. interior.

Interesting about your trip to the Mercedes plant - V6/V8 plant in Stuttgart ? I toured the plant in 2000, interesting to see the mix of old craftsmanship and modern technology. I was particularly impressed with the "green energy" solar roof on the plant generating for the suplemental electrical needs of the operation.

Regards,
Steve

[Design Drive Motors]

My X77 (January car) has the X7 on the bulkhead. Le Mans, black std. interior.

Interesting about your trip to the Mercedes plant - V6/V8 plant in Stuttgart ? I toured the plant in 2000, interesting to see the mix of old craftsmanship and modern technology. I was particularly impressed with the "green energy" solar roof on the plant generating for the suplemental electrical needs of the operation.

Regards,
Steve

Yes Stuttgart!  It was pretty awesome.  2 people run the Frame and Body "shop"  All robots handing whole cars from station to station welding in parts as they go.  Just incredible.  Then the size of the plant, then the 10KM stretch of the river that is all dedicated to suppliers to feed the plant with all sorts of small parts that end up on the line.  I was there in 2018.  Really cool experiance.

[GMAD_Van Nuys]

I remember being in the paint area at the Van Nuys Plant in 1985 when a group from Mercedes Benz viewed our new facilities, which at the time were supposed to be one of the most advanced water-based paint systems in use.  Due to the strict environmental laws in California, we had clean rooms set up where the cars were painted, with the paint fumes passed through carbon filters.  Due to the inversion layer conditions in the San Fernando Valley, they had to install these tall stacks in an effort to disburse the remaining fumes, but I don't believe we ever were able to meet the State standards when at full production.  When Van Nuys went to one shift however, we met the local smog laws as the inversion layer conditions were usually during 2nd shift.  Unfortunately, the only assembly plant at GM at the time that could make a profit with only one production shift was the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, Kentucky.  I did visit Bowl Green when they had two shifts in 1986 and found out that they didn't stop the assembly line during a shift change as it was moving so slowly that it wasn't necessary!

[Design Drive Motors]

I remember being in the paint area at the Van Nuys Plant in 1985 when a group from Mercedes Benz viewed our new facilities, which at the time were supposed to be one of the most advanced water-based paint systems in use.  Due to the strict environmental laws in California, we had clean rooms set up where the cars were painted, with the paint fumes passed through carbon filters.  Due to the inversion layer conditions in the San Fernando Valley, they had to install these tall stacks in an effort to disburse the remaining fumes, but I don't believe we ever were able to meet the State standards when at full production.  When Van Nuys went to one shift however, we met the local smog laws as the inversion layer conditions were usually during 2nd shift.  Unfortunately, the only assembly plant at GM at the time that could make a profit with only one production shift was the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, Kentucky.  I did visit Bowl Green when they had two shifts in 1986 and found out that they didn't stop the assembly line during a shift change as it was moving so slowly that it wasn't necessary!

That's some cool history, I love the ins and outs of car production history  It seems like these companies played big risk games, with unwilling governments, and being responsible for such a large work force.  Its all quite amazing to me.  It makes me feel pretty small, and that's a good thing, and humbling. 

How long did you work there?

[GMAD_Van Nuys]

When our project to update our paint shop was submitted to Central Office, my contact told me that there was no support to invest more money to keep the Van Nuys Plant open.  Alexander Cunningham, the Vice Chairman of General Motors at the time, was in charge of appropriations, and when our project was presented, Cunningham said "I think it is a good idea" and it was approved.  I told my contact, Richard, why didn't you tell him to reconsider.  When sales of Camaros and Firebirds slowed to where GM only needed one assembly plant, most were surprised when it was decided to keep Van Nuys open and close Norwood as due to shipping costs, it was estimated that it cost $400 per vehicle more to build the F car in California.  I worked nearly a decade at the Van Nuys Plant and then transferred to Delco Electronics in Goleta, CA, working on defense programs, which was interesting, but not nearly as much fun as seeing cars going down the line at Van Nuys.