1968 Le Mans Blue vs. 1969 Le Mans Blue

[oyster80]

I'm a Camaro newbie (even though I owned a Z/28 a long, long time ago).

However, I'm not a GM/Corvette newbie.

I used the forum search function and did not find an answer to my following Camaro question. I apologize if my question has been answered.

In order to give background to my question, I need to first talk about the 1968-69 Corvette Le Mans Blue.

CORVETTE
Corvette offered Le Mans Blue Metallic in 1968 and 1969. Both years, the trim tag code was 976. However, the color and color formulas were different. The 1968 color was GM WA3742, while the 1969 color was GM WA3962.

CAMARO
In January 1968 (approximately), Camaro added Le Mans Blue Metallic. At that time, three other colors were added for Camaro availability, while four colors were deleted from Camaro availability. From what I have read, Camaro coded the 1968 color with either a "U" or a "-" (dash). In 1969, trim tag color codes became numbers and the Le Mans Blue code became code 71.

Understand that trim tag paint color codes are typically the order code, not the paint formula code.

QUESTION
With the mid-year introduction of Le Mans Blue on Camaro, might the color have been the new 1969 color?

If Camaro's 1968 Le Mans Blue was NOT the 1969 color, that means that Camaro, just like Corvette, had two different Le Mans Blue colors.

NOTE:
The trim tag will not answer the question. The window sticker will not answer the question. Neither of these primary sources give the GM WA paint code.

I have scoured paint manufacturer chip charts to no avail.

Perhaps someone knows of a mid-1968 PPG/Ditzler Jobber bulletin which shows the mid-year color adds?

Thanks.

[RAfbody]

http://www.camaros.org/exterior.shtml#CorvetteColors

[oyster80]

Thank you, RAfbody. I did see that section of the website. It is a very informative section.

Unfortunately, that section does not answer my question.

I think the only way to verify my question is to find a paint jobber bulletin, if one exists. Those bulletins were kind of a memo sent by paint manufacturers to aftermarket paint shops to give those shops a heads up about added or deleted colors by GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. Those bulletins are typically kept in a three-ring (or five-ring), desk-top binder that contains all the paint chip charts. Here's a jobber bulletin from 1970 concerning Chevy colors:

[oyster80]

From the above Ditzler bulletin, the left column is labeled "Paint Code." In reality, that is the GM color order code used by dealerships and is also the code that is stamped on the Camaro trim tag.

Ditzler is alerting paint jobbers that:

1970 Daytona Yellow is order code / trim tag code 51 (The same color in 1969 was order code 76)
1970 Hugger Orange is order code / trim tag code 65 (The same color in 1969 was order code 72)

In the right column, we see the Ditzler Code - which is their paint code, not GM's. From that Ditzler code, the GM (Fisher Body) WA paint code can be transcribed.

So, concerning my original question which began this thread, my hopes are that someone has an old paint bulletin from Ditzler/PPG, DuPont, Rinshed/Mason, etc., which alerts a paint jobber of the January 1968 introduction of Le Mans Blue on the Camaro. With a manufacturer paint code, the exact Le Mans Blue can be determined.

Then we will all know if there were two Le Mans Blue colors on the 1968-69 Camaro, just like there was on the 1968-69 Corvette.

Thanks.

[KevinW]

Oyster, I don't have any bulletins, but for 69 Lemans blue was (Diztler-2083, Mason-A-2109, DuPont-5021LM).  If you have the Vette codes, you could see if they match.

[bcmiller]

I can try to check my paint books later today.

68 and 69 use two different codes. I imagine the 68 Camaro color is the same as the 68 Corvette color. GM would not have different colors in the same year, in my opinion.

The formulas won't work today, like they did back then, because the paints are different today. Different type of paint and pigments/toners.

* typo fixed - I changed 69 Corvette to 68 Corvette (should have been clear from how the sentence was worded).

[oyster80]

STOP THE PRESSES!!

I found it.

Kevin and Bryon, thank you for your interest, but I finally found the answer.

To recount, Corvette's 1968 Le Mans Blue was a different color than Corvette's 1969 Le Mans Blue. QUESTION: Was Camaro's 1968 Le Mans Blue also a different color from Camaro's 1969 Le Mans Blue? Or, because of the January introduction, did Camaro have the 1969 Le Mans Blue, just like Corvette?

ANSWER: Camaro's 1968 Le Mans Blue was a different color than Camaro's 1969 Le Mans Blue.

Primary source documentation:

1968 LE MANS BLUE
OK, click this link and scroll down to the big DuPont paint chip chart. This a 1968 revised chart showing all four added Camaro colors (even though they messed up the Corvette Bronze information):

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1968&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=54

OK, so DuPont indicates that the 1968 code U (Camaro only for code U) is Le Mans Blue and the DuPont paint code is 4908.

Now, is that 4908 paint code the code for the Le Mans Blue used on the 1968 Corvette? Yes. Click this link and scroll down:

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1968&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=51

So we know that the same 1968 Le Mans Blue was used on both Camaro and Corvette.

1969 LE MANS BLUE
The 1969 DuPont paint chip chart is very clear that the 1969 Le Mans Blue was no longer coded 4908, it was now coded 5030. This confirms that the 1969 Camaro had a new formula for Le Mans Blue. Click this link and scroll down:

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1969&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=40

You can see that code 71 (Camaro) and code 976 (Corvette) are indicated for the 1969 Le Mans Blue, DuPont code 5030.

THE GM (Fisher Body) WA PAINT CODES
The 1968 GM paint code for Le Mans Blue is WA3742. The link below is missing the page with the WA code, but my Corvette research verifies that the GM code was WA3742. However, we can check another way: under the Code 976 Le Mans Blue color chip we see Sherwin Williams code 2766. See this link and scroll down:
http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1968&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=70

The 1969 GM paint code for Le Mans Blue is WA3962. The Sherwin Williams Le Mans Blue Code 976 is no longer 2766, it is now 2896. See this link and scroll down:
http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/chipdisplay.cgi?year=1969&manuf=GM&smodel=Buick&info=yes&page=58

So, the short of it is this: Camaro's 1968 Le Mans Blue was a different color than Camaro's 1969 Le Mans Blue. On chip charts the colors look very similar, but the fact that GM assigned a new WA code to the 1969 color means that the color had a very different formula.

As you can see, the order code, or trim tag code, means nothing when determining the paint color. The order/tag code is exclusive to that car, for that year, for that color. As an example, Hugger Orange (GM WA3959) on Camaro was three different order codes/trim tag codes: 72 (in 1969), 65 (in 1970), and 78 (in 1976). Same color, same GM WA code, three different order codes used by dealerships. To really foul up things, Corvette used Hugger Orange in 1969, but called it Monaco Orange with trim tag code 990.

By the way, use caution on the Paint Ref site. I tend to trust only the actual manufacturer charts. They are the only primary sources that should be used, and even they have some issues. Some of the Paint Ref "grid" information is incorrect.

Thanks for your help and interest. I promise not to be so wordy the next time a pose a question! 

[maroman]

Good Grief. This is the stuff that makes owning an old car fun! Glad you found the answer. IF you can find someone that mixes lacquer they can still mix either color. As was said modern paints won't compute.