1969 Z28 Trim Tag - Real?

[BULLITT65]

As I understand it there is more than one casting number used and they aren't just for the 302.  So, I guess I have to rely on the casting date and stamps.  Is it possible to see the rear of the crank through the Muncie bellhousing?

I doubt it. You have the flywheel bolted up to it and then clutch/pressure plate, bolted from there. There are many factors (clues) as mentioned previously that you can look for that will help. I would also agree with Gary *most of the original VIN stamps in the block are very faint. I have seen at least one original VIN stamp where it was deep set. Like Gary said maybe this was done because the original was to faint ? Maybe Kurt or someone else can chime in concerning this detail. (The one I saw the 9N was faint but the remaining stamp was deep, with no other faint stamps visible.)

[69Z28-RS]

As I understand it there is more than one casting number used and they aren't just for the 302.  So, I guess I have to rely on the casting date and stamps.  Is it possible to see the rear of the crank through the Muncie bellhousing?

I doubt it. You have the flywheel bolted up to it and then clutch/pressure plate, bolted from there. There are many factors (clues) as mentioned previously that you can look for that will help. I would also agree with Gary *most of the original VIN stamps in the block are very faint. I have seen at least one original VIN stamp where it was deep set. Like Gary said maybe this was done because the original was to faint ? Maybe Kurt or someone else can chime in concerning this detail. (The one I saw the 9N was faint but the remaining stamp was deep, with no other faint stamps visible.)

Austin, IMO a typical rough cast VIN stamping *could* be STAMPED OVER deeply (with a different VIN) and it would make the original stamped no totally indiscernable and unrecoverable.  When I see any part of the VIN stamped deeply I would put that engine in the RESTAMP category...  even if it's an owner restamping the same VIN, I'd still put it in the RESTAMP category, which is what it is...

Original Car Owners:   If you know/believe the car/parts to be original, PLEASE do nothing to make a part stamping or id 'more legible'...  you're ruining the car/part when you do that, and I hope no one would do it...

[BULLITT65]

Gary you made me laugh with that comment. Your logic is spot on. Yes, if the VIN (even if the same number) was stamped over the original it would be a "restamp".
Now that I have seen many examples, I have seen some very light, and I have seen some deep . I have a pics of a VIN stamp upside down, and I also have a pic  where the last 2 numbers were larger than the rest. So I guess what I am saying is there is a norm, and there is a small percentage that vary from that.
( I am not saying the car referenced in this thread is one of those. )

I guess from my perspective and the examples I have seen: It can be hard to see the faint VIN stamp, but then it can be easier to verify it as original. Conversely: It is easier to find the deep stamp but than harder to verify, because there are very few original examples of these variances and even those can vary from one to the next.

So similar to the rear end stamp conversation, while not the norm, there are verified Vin stamps that do not fit the "cookie cutter" idea that all the cars were created exactly the same.

[Speedracer8]

All good points.  I'm going to take a look and see how the car drives, then make a decision from there.  Learned a lot through this process, and I appreciate that. 

[jdv69z]

Interior is not 723 - Midnight green vinyl.

[69Z28-RS]

Bullitt:  from my understanding the VIN derivative stamp on the engine block should have been made with the SAME SETUP on the gang stamp as is on the transmission... so a careful comparison there would help one determine originality. 

I noted on the car in question, only the sequence number digits were DEEP stamped; the prior digits seemed similar to 'typical' (and of course would be the same on any 69 Camaro).  WHY would only the sequence number digits be deeper if all the characters were in the same gangholder?   and.. is it the same way on the softer aluminum on the trans??

PS.  Many original VIN stamps have the last two digits in the VIN be a different (larger) font; mine is that way also, and I'd bet yours is as well.  When the'stamper' is stamping the cars coming down the line, he would likely only change the last character, or last couple, when stamping the next car.  This is true whether the VIN stamp is on the front pad, or the rough cast surface above the oil filter.

[X33RS]

Interior is not 723 - Midnight green vinyl.

I noticed that too.  Since it's missing the clock it's likely not a gauge package car so that may have been added during the interior change over.  It would make me look at other typical add ons as well like hood, spoilers, etc...  If the purchaser cares about that sort of thing.

[69Z28-RS]

All good points.  I'm going to take a look and see how the car drives, then make a decision from there.  Learned a lot through this process, and I appreciate that. 

IMO, he's asking a lot of money for a 'visually nice' car with many questionable components...??

[6667ss138]

The first time I saw the eBay pic of this VIN block stamp I was skeptical. I know there are exceptions to everything but most of the true factory stampings that I have ever seen are very, very hard to see. I had to go to great extents with a bright light and a magnifying glass to see any of the partial VIN on my Z. I almost gave up that it was even there. Granted my engine is still in the car which makes it even more difficult to see but I would be very careful about paying anywhere close to "numbers matching" money for this car. JMHO

Looks like the listing has ended. I sure hope someone didn't get duped!

[bcmiller]

Engine stamps don't look original to me. I did not see a pic of the transmission or axle in this thread or in the eBay listing.

[69Z28-RS]

I posted earlier in this thread, the following:
"PS.  Many original VIN stamps have the last two digits in the VIN be a different (larger) font; mine is that way also, and I'd bet yours is as well.  When the'stamper' is stamping the cars coming down the line, he would likely only change the last character, or last couple, when stamping the next car.  This is true whether the VIN stamp is on the front pad, or the rough cast surface above the oil filter."
------------------------------------

Today, in response to an email from Austin, I went back to photographs I had of these items and now I want to 'retract' or modify what I'd said above.  The last two characters in my VIN derivative stamps look *different*? or more distinct?   but not sure after looking more closely today that they are 'larger'... They may just be made from 'newer, less worn' stamps, which makes them look the way they do...

[bcmiller]

Generally for Norwood cars, the VIN font characters will all be the same size.  Not the case for LOS, where there are variations.

There are known variances to VIN stamps, and axle stamps, but these are generally grouped in blocks of time.  For example, what was going on in 1967, would not be going on in 1969.