advice on painting cowl

[HawkX66]

Thanks Dave. heres what I did first. I let this dry long enough that I could lay paper across the top and taped to the fenders. the paper was right to the edge of the corner. Then I took the black and started at the bottom and worked up. when I got to the seam I watched I didn't get too close to the corner. then turned gun down until I barely put anything out. I did hold the gun toward the ground so I didnt mess up right off and had the air down but you dont want so little air it isnt atomizing.  I dont have a real steady hand but when the gun was on such low volume, I could hit it with a couple passes to make it even. whats nice is you can practice how much your putting on toward the bottom to get a feel for it.

Nice, thanks. I'm going to have to sand down some of my firewall and cowl and spray the rest of the car HO first. I sprayed the firewall backwards. I should have sprayed color and then sprayed the firewall, but I wanted the firewall painted. It shouldn't be a big deal though.

[BillOhio]

I did the underneath and cowl of mine than had a real painter do the body! So I was backward too. You could cover the firewall and be fine.

[HawkX66]

I did the underneath and cowl of mine than had a real painter do the body! So I was backward too. You could cover the firewall and be fine.

Perfect. Thanks.

[X33RS]

Actually SgtHawk, it may sound backwards to some, but I prefer to do the cowl and bottom of the car first for a few reasons. 

One, If I painted the car first, then I'm bagging the entire car to protect it from overspray while painting the bottom and cowl.  While not a big deal it's more time consuming and tedious.

Second, I prefer to have the cowl and bottom done first so that when I'm painting the color on the body I can duplicate the body color spray patterns on the floors when the lower rockers are shot that you usually see on most original or correct cars (if that's what the customer wants, and if it's correct for the particular car in question.) 

[HawkX66]

I couldn't agree more. I did it while it was up on my rotisserie and wouldn't have done any other way if I could help it. I was just saying backwards because I thought the color was shot before the firewall was blacked out. I can't remember off the top of my head what the CRG report said.

[X33RS]

Of course this depends on make and model and plant, but on original cars I've seen, and the couple of unrestored survivors that I still have here, it appears to me the black out was done on the firewall after the color was applied, just as you are thinking.

What gets tricky is what you guys are trying to accomplish at the top of the firewall, you guys did a nice job of it 
   Another way I've done it, is to shoot the body color all around the cowl and down the firewall to some degree, and shoot the rear wheel wells in body color,  then do the black out on the firewall and floors, then all I have to do is mask the firewall, shoot the body, get my overspray pattern on the floors while in the process and do the sound deadener in the rear wheel wells last.

On my Z the firewall will be a piece of cake.  Mine is a black stripe car and still original, you can see how the factory took gloss paint and sprayed the top of the cowl right over the low gloss firewall coat, so it's all black with no body color showing anywhere in that area.  It's much easier to take the gloss black and blow that in on top of the cowl as the "fade" area isn't as pronounced as say....trying to blow white in there or some other light body color.

What I have noticed on mine after a good power wash, a lot of the sound deadener around the rear wheel wells and rear frame rails blew right off and factory Frost Green is everywhere back there.  More body color than I have normally seen around that area, even up on the floors towards the gas tank, basically seeing it from behind the doors on back.   The black out floor on mine seems to start over the top of the rearend housing and then goes forward from there.   Kind of interesting.  Wish I could find other 12D unrestored Norwood cars to compare with. 

[69Z28-RS]

....
  The black out floor on mine seems to start over the top of the rearend housing and then goes forward from there.   Kind of interesting.  Wish I could find other 12D unrestored Norwood cars to compare with. 

Do you have photos of the floor above the gas tank?  What coating do you see under there..

[X33RS]

I haven't taken photo's but I could.

Floors are black from the firewall back.  Up over the rearend housing it starts to transition with some green, and another color that looks like a grey primer possibly.  Then runs into the gas tank.

From the sides there is a lot of green.  The entire rear wheel house is green, the frame rails are green on the side facing out as well as the bottom, all the way back past the factory exhaust hangers.  When you get to the very rear of the frame rail, I'd say the last 12 inches, it turns into that grey looking primer again.  No black out back there that I can see.  Even the trunk drop offs look greyish.

The rear wheel houses had a thick black sound deadener sprayed in it which is pretty normal from other cars I've seen, it was also partially on the side of the frame rails just in the wheel house area.  That's the only place I found it.  That blew off quickly with the power washer and revealed original green paint underneath.

That's the best way I could describe it.  When I get to it, the gas tank is coming out, probably take the exhaust and rearend loose.  At that point it would be easy to clean it up more and take some pictures.

[HawkX66]

....
  The black out floor on mine seems to start over the top of the rearend housing and then goes forward from there.   Kind of interesting.  Wish I could find other 12D unrestored Norwood cars to compare with. 

Do you have photos of the floor above the gas tank?  What coating do you see under there..

Hey Gary, I'd post a couple of pics of mine before I replaced the floor and trunk etc, but Photobucket has decided to crap out on me I guess. It looks like mine was pretty much all red oxide with HO over spray from the trunk pan up to the firewall and the firewall black out didn't go down to the floor seam all the way. I have a couple good pics. Once Photobucket comes back on line for me I'll try to remember to post them up for you.

[Sauron327]

The firewall blackout was applied after body color. The floorpans were originally just primer and were not topcoated black with anything. I always shoot the body color and spray the firewall blackout last, just to the floorpan seam. For cars with body color exposed at the top, choke the fan to control the amount of exposure desired.

[69Z28-RS]

I haven't taken photo's but I could.

Floors are black from the firewall back.  Up over the rearend housing it starts to transition with some green, and another color that looks like a grey primer possibly.  Then runs into the gas tank.

From the sides there is a lot of green.  The entire rear wheel house is green, the frame rails are green on the side facing out as well as the bottom, all the way back past the factory exhaust hangers.  When you get to the very rear of the frame rail, I'd say the last 12 inches, it turns into that grey looking primer again.  No black out back there that I can see.  Even the trunk drop offs look greyish.

The rear wheel houses had a thick black sound deadener sprayed in it which is pretty normal from other cars I've seen, it was also partially on the side of the frame rails just in the wheel house area.  That's the only place I found it.  That blew off quickly with the power washer and revealed original green paint underneath.

That's the best way I could describe it.  When I get to it, the gas tank is coming out, probably take the exhaust and rearend loose.  At that point it would be easy to clean it up more and take some pictures.

Thanks X33....  your original bottom paint is similar to my own.... it seems Norwood was pretty consistent.  My car was gray primer mostly under the gas tank...  The hard shiny black began at the differential forward... with lots of orange overspray on the parts hanging lower and facing to the sides of the car..

[X33RS]

I haven't taken photo's but I could.

Floors are black from the firewall back.  Up over the rearend housing it starts to transition with some green, and another color that looks like a grey primer possibly.  Then runs into the gas tank.

From the sides there is a lot of green.  The entire rear wheel house is green, the frame rails are green on the side facing out as well as the bottom, all the way back past the factory exhaust hangers.  When you get to the very rear of the frame rail, I'd say the last 12 inches, it turns into that grey looking primer again.  No black out back there that I can see.  Even the trunk drop offs look greyish.

The rear wheel houses had a thick black sound deadener sprayed in it which is pretty normal from other cars I've seen, it was also partially on the side of the frame rails just in the wheel house area.  That's the only place I found it.  That blew off quickly with the power washer and revealed original green paint underneath.

That's the best way I could describe it.  When I get to it, the gas tank is coming out, probably take the exhaust and rearend loose.  At that point it would be easy to clean it up more and take some pictures.

Thanks X33....  your original bottom paint is similar to my own.... it seems Norwood was pretty consistent.  My car was gray primer mostly under the gas tank...  The hard shiny black began at the differential forward... with lots of orange overspray on the parts hanging lower and facing to the sides of the car..

When was yours built Gary?    Based on what you're car has, I wouldn't be surprised when I pull the gas tank if mine is also grey in that area, since I'm seeing grey on the last 12" of rear frame rail and the trunk drop offs.
  My entire rear wheel houses are green, even facing up at the top, then blacked it out with sound deadener. 

Dave, is yours a Norwood or Van Nuys car?  I haven't seen a 69 with red oxide as of yet.  Mine is definitely black with no hint of red oxide anywhere, even under the black mine appears grey.    My 70 Formula is Van Nuys and it's also factory black floor pans.   The only red oxide floor I've seen on the F-body was some of the early 70's birds I've worked on.
   I wish my Z had red oxide though, I love the contrast.  Don't really care for blacked out floor pans, even on a fresh restoration it gives the impression of a spray bomb job, lol.  That's just me though.

[HawkX66]

Dave, is yours a Norwood or Van Nuys car?  I haven't seen a 69 with red oxide as of yet.  Mine is definitely black with no hint of red oxide anywhere, even under the black mine appears grey.    My 70 Formula is Van Nuys and it's also factory black floor pans.   The only red oxide floor I've seen on the F-body was some of the early 70's birds I've worked on.
   I wish my Z had red oxide though, I love the contrast.  Don't really care for blacked out floor pans, even on a fresh restoration it gives the impression of a spray bomb job, lol.  That's just me though.
 

Mine's a Norwood. The floor in the interior was definitely red oxide, but the floor bottom was probably grey with orange over spray making it look red after all the years.  The tunnel looked pretty grey.
 Come on now, spray bombed? Mine doesn't look spray bombed does it lol? Here's what it looked like originally and now:

[BillOhio]

Heres a couple before pictures. my car had alot of overspray underneath. Maybe it stuck from lack of use or just got a good blast. about the only grey I had was the tunnel and above the tank

[HawkX66]

Heres a couple before pictures. my car had alot of overspray underneath. Maybe it stuck from lack of use or just got a good blast. about the only grey I had was the tunnel and above the tank

Wow. I wish my original floors were that nice.