Found and talked to the original owner of my 69Z today, need opinions!!

[Bryan302]

Friends, I just got lucky this weekend.  I was at a local Mustang club show in my town.  I was standing there smokin' over a very nice survivor 70 Boss 302, bought new locally, when a man got up from his near by swap meet booth and walks over to me.  He said, aren't you kind of out of place wearing that garnet red embroidered 69 Z t shirt to a mustang show.  I said, yes sir, I feel like the punch in the bowl that the turd was in.  The man went on to tell me that he owned a HO Z for thirty seven years and recently sold it.  He then asked me if I had this Garnet Red Z now.  I said yes, I've had it for thirty six years and several years ago have started to dis-assemble, clean it up and restore it.  The man then said, I've got a close friend that bought a garnet red Z new and traded it in 1972 and has often wondered where it went.  I didn't think much about it, and was about to discard the possibility of it being the same car, and then, the man said, well this one had red deluxe comfort weave interior with a rubber front bumper.  About then my jaw was beginning to drop and he said... and it was bought at such and such dealer in such and such town in July of 1969.  Well, my knees were beginning to buckle, then I said that sounded like the same car but there was no sure ties.  Then man said, well did the steering wheel have NB + TW inscribed in it!  I said, THAT'S IT!!  So this man called his friend when he got home yesterday, and informed him of the news.  I talked to the original owner of my Z for an hour and a half this afternoon.

He told me he did not have any documents that he knew of, but would look for them and the one original photo that he knew of.

He told me that within 3 months he had a mechanic remove the exhaust manifolds and smog pump to install headers and gave the mechanic the parts to install the headers.  Then he said while I was at it I had him cut those damn little mufflers off too.  Then, within a few more months he had the 3.73's out and put in 4.10's.  (So that's where that stuff went).

(This is leading to my question and request of advice).  I told my new friend that I had ran the numbers with NCRS and received the dealer information, and that was all I had, and was one of the proving factors to being the same car.  He asked me if there was anything he could request being that he was the original owner.  I said maybe the MSO from DMV.

I have been told that the privacy act is the reason the DMV has shut researchers and owners down.  Would the DMV send the MSO and titles to the original owner upon his request??  Is there any other info the DMV has?

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[ZLP955]

Congratulation Bryan, great that you've found the original owner and pieced together some of the car's early history.
As far as your question goes, I'm unfamiliar with US state laws (being in Australia), but what have you got to lose? I'd have offered to drive him straight down to the nearest DMV to see what they have on file and could give him copies of, being the original owner on file, and then taken him out for the biggest steak to be found!
Good Luck!

[cook_dw]

Not sure how Alabama does it but in TN they will only go back 2 previous owners now..  Texas when I did my search there it only came back with the only known registration back in '72 or '73..

[william]

I researched a ZL1 in Alabama many years ago. In '69 they registered cars by county; the state had nothing. If there is any info remaining that's where it would be.

Go for it!

[6667ss138]

Congrats Bryan, your story is similar to mine. I will put the link to my original owner story from over on Team Camaro at the bottom. Other than trying to find any DMV records just be sure and get his story down on paper or video along with a signed/notarized affidavit and current pictures of him with the car now. IMO, In todays world of so many skeptical of an original car because of everything being faked from tags and stampings to factory paperwork, the one thing that is hard to fake (especialy if you have DMV records to back it up) and you still have him around and he is willing to help is the original owner with original pictures.
Does your car still have the original drivetrain? Sounds like a cool one!!

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=241017

[69Z28-RS]

Bryan!!   I'm very happy for you ... finding the original owner is a big deal!    As someone said, get a video or a letter from the original owner stating everything he can remember... a photo of him with the car now would be good too.. along with a copy of his original photos (back when)..

Re finding original registration data in Alabama from 1969, that's a crap shoot.   As William said, the state records are non-existent for back then, but knowing what county it was sold in *might* be beneficial... if it was Lauderdale county, they might still have some records.. but they would have to be searched.  if you KNOW someone in that office, that will help!   (I did have a friend who worked in that office... give me a call and maybe together we can get you more info!!)..

 

PS>  Find out who the mechanic was..  if he's still around (and knowing what I know of the garages in that area), he *might still have some of those parts piled in a dirty corner somewhere!!*... now wouldn't that be a happy day!! .. What would anyone have done with removed smog equipment/exhaust manifolds back then???   there was no market for them at that time!

[69 Zee]

Congrats Byran !  Can't offer any help in reference to the DMV      But man what a "SMALL WORLD" .   Sounds like your local to the original owners close friend.  Is the original owner close to you also ?

Like you, I was able to speak to my original owner over the phone for nearly an hour.  The stories... I felt like a kid in awe sitting on a tree stump listening to an old wise tale.   Since we've remained in contact via email.  I've put together about 10 questions that he's going to answer and have certified.  Questions from why the color to what/why the options.  Just adding to the provenance.

Good luck,  lets cross a finger and hope to see some more added info to your Z.

[x77-69z28]

Very cool Bryan. You keep one upping me! Did you get the email I sent? Finally got under my car. I hope the original owner comes up with something for you!
Buddy

[BULLITT65]

Congrats Bryan, I am in contact with the original owners son, and wife of my car. Like Bryan and Darrell what kind of affidavit or letter should I have him or the wife (his mom) write or sign their signature to? I could see them verifying the 46k milage, but it is well documented through service records, and a driving log the original owner filled out religiously. So other than milage what would you guys recommend, or what have you asked the original owners for?

[Bryan302]

Thanks everyone!  I did talk to the original owner (Neal) again Sunday evening, Neal told me he would check his courthouse and he had a friend that could check DMV for us.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  He would also search for documents at home.

Len, Thanks and yes, the car is pretty original and matching except for the original M21 is toast and has been partially replaced.  My valve covers, cowl A/C, plug wire brkts., booster hose brkt., exhaust manifolds and smog were gone, and the gears had been changed to 4.10 from 3.73 when I got the Z in 1979.  And now, I know where some of it went!  I have already painfully replaced most of this, that was missing.

Darrell, (69 ZEE)  Thanks, the original owner and his friend are about 50 miles from me, and the car when Neal had it.  Neal and his friend are about 10 miles apart.  The old dealership was about half way between us.

Gary, Thanks and I'll call you back!

Buddy, Thanks!  I didn't get your email and message.  It must have stopped for a beer.

Now friends, I have to relay the coolest story. 
Neal told me that his father had passed away a few years before he was old enough to drive.  When the time came for his first car, his mother took him to the local dealer, C. D. King Chevrolet.  (Neal told me he had been shopping a few days before and had scoped out a few options).  When they arrived, Neal promptly escorted his mom to the showroom where this gorgeous blue big block SS/RS camaro was sitting.  After looking it over and finding out how big the engine was, his mom told him "Your not getting a car with a motor this big"  With dis appointment he said, Well, lets go out here and look at this Red Z28, it has a 302 in it, that's smaller than the 327 in your car.  After looking it over for a bit, she said this would do.  Neal told me he broke the news years later.

Neal also told me that after the Z was around for awhile, he began to roam the street.  There was this 440 six pak road runner that was giving him a little trouble with the 3.73's and after installing the 4.10's the big 440 was no longer a problem.

Thanks everybody, for your reply's.

Bryan

[TooManyReels]

This probably varies from state to state.. In NC, I have ran two DMV title searches. One for a car I owned and one for a car that was sold in Goldsboro NC, now titled and residing in Cal.  The cost for a notarized title search was $10 or $15 dollars.

I was able to track down the second owner of my car based on the title search. You are way ahead of where most people are in there quest to find out information. I'm not sure what else a title search would do for you other than give you some more documentation to have to go with the car. 

I would say that the title search helped me when a guy came up to me this past spring and said I want to buy your car, "do you have history on the car" when I showed him the title search, he said, lets talk money.

I still miss that car....

Good luck with your search.

[Bryan302]

Thanks Eddie!  I had high hopes that the original owner could request his own information, and he tried, but it seems it is not there anymore, since they are not required to keep it but ten years.  Bummer!  I still have some hope left, now that I have several names to use for searches.

Is your HO Z the one you sold?  I saw that car at Carlisle 2014, super nice!

Thanks,
Bryan

[TooManyReels]

 Yes and thank you,  it is the same car.  I really did not want to sell the car, but I have come to place in my life where I have learned that if you sell something when you don't want to sell it you will be much happier with yourself versa trying to sell something and end up taking less than what you wanted for it and then start beating yourself up by saying, I should have not sold it that cheap..

Since I could not get the original motor back from the guy that had it, I started to feel like I was showing a clone at times (just my thinking).  Showing the car gave me a lot of pleasure and pride in owning such a wonderful piece of cars history. I really liked meeting the people and telling them about the car. I will always have fond memories of the car and the wonderful people that crossed our paths, like the many we met in Carlisle PA.. Again, good luck in your search.

Eddie

[maroman]

If you haven't done it contact the mechanic that took the stuff off. He MAY still have it. Cool for you to find the original owner.

[69Z28-RS]

Congrats Bryan, I am in contact with the original owners son, and wife of my car. Like Bryan and Darrell what kind of affidavit or letter should I have him or the wife (his mom) write or sign their signature to? I could see them verifying the 46k milage, but it is well documented through service records, and a driving log the original owner filled out religiously. So other than milage what would you guys recommend, or what have you asked the original owners for?

Austin,

What I'd suggest is to type up a draft of a letter yourself, including statements for any aspects of your car that you think people might question in the future...  ie. 'real Z28', original 302 motor, trans, rear, etc.. never changed or swapped out'.. etc.   Where / When they purchased the car (city, dealership, salesman?,etc)... How long they kept it..   how much they drove it..    was it always garaged... etc..   ever in an accident?...  what sorts of things did it go back to the dealer for service?...

Draft up a 'perfect letter' with all the facts as you know them, then send it to them to correct for accuracy...  they can either rewrite it with correct facts, OR redline and return to you to be typed up for them to sign...   (I think if you leave the contents of the letter up to them, they will leave out the things most important to you...)

Gary