if you could go back and redesign the 67/8 .. or that other one,

[69Z28-RS]

One major thing if I could go back in time to all the manufacturers would be to increase the wheel well size specifically in the rear, but considering trans am, how about on all 4 corners. Even my 66 chevelle or the early novas , the engineers could have probably had the same cost of assembly and made the inner tubs bigger.

Remember that:

1. "Big tires" didn't exist in the early-to-mid-60's - they were all skinny, for ride comfort.

2. Making the inner rear wheelhouse tubs wider would have compromised the rear seat hip room dimension and reduced the cubic capacity number for the trunk, and those were important in the 60's.

JohnZ...     Some (Or most?) of these guys can't 'remember' that because they weren't around then..      THEY think these huge wide tires we have available to us today have always been around....  

[cook_dw]

In crabby old man voice - "Back in my day we had to walk to school 20 miles up hill both ways in 4 feet of snow!!!"

lol

[69Z28-RS]

In crabby old man voice - "Back in my day we had to walk to school 20 miles up hill both ways in 4 feet of snow!!!"

lol

...  ..  and.. On skinny tires.... because that was all that was available before 1970...   

[lakeholme]

Hmm, I was thinking they had drag slicks even in the mid 60's. Wasn't big daddy's swamp rat around in the late 50's?

I was referring to PRODUCTION tires (the kind they designed the car around).  ;-0

Yep, what you got off the dealer lot had narrow bias-ply. 

[KurtS]

Oh, and body stiffness. They didn't have the analytical tools to do it right.

[janobyte]

Not from the factory this way??

[F68]

Better rust protection on sheetmetal.

Personally, I've been pretty impressed by the degree of rust protection Chevy applied to the sheet metal parts.   The ONLY areas on my car which had any rust at all was under the battery (inner fender and frame rail) apparently where battery acid leaked onto the metal parts...  that isn't so bad for 45 years  IMO..     (Let's wait another 45 years and see how well the 'restored' cars do...   )

actually,  having chiseled off more than a couple  67=8 quarter panels and replaced them---There was a ribbon of  sponge foam  inserted between the wheelhouse lip and the quarter skin--apparently  to  "seal it when they were spotwelded on the assembly line,  and what it really did was wick and hold moisture--causing them to rust out even in somewhat  moist environments like Dallas Tx.  and that my friends  --was doing No one any favors

[F68]

 Them ole Camaros,  best damn sporty car for the buck avalable to us US Americans,  but--Nothing is perfect.....
 Myself -I have always been pre-occupied with styling, and annoyed by  styling glitches that seem  last minute additions to clay full scale models added my ignoramous's'

The 67-and 8 got pretty close to perfect proportions for what they were, but having sufferd the same  abuse all you guys also agonized over..door dings...... The crease running down the length i would have  smoothed over and eliminated,  also since i have done custom pieces like a road racing front faring -even before  , I did not like the indented wheel well lips stamped in just to fit  the tacky  wheel opening trim ,  i would have just had a 1/2" flat vertical edge all the way around , those are the two basic changes i wish the cars had when they came out,  but i can turn my imagination loose,,,, You guys would not believe what would have been

 Them ole Camaros,  best damn sporty car for the buck avalable to us US Americans,  but--Nothing is perfect.....
 Myself -I have always been pre-occupied with styling, and annoyed by  styling glitches that seem  last minute additions to clay full scale models added my ignoramous's'

The 67-and 8 got pretty close to perfect proportions for what they were, but having sufferd the same  abuse all you guys also agonized over..door dings...... The crease running down the length i would have  smoothed over and eliminated,  also since i have done custom pieces like a road racing front faring -even before  , I did not like the indented wheel well lips stamped in just to fit  the tacky  wheel opening trim ,  i would have just had a 1/2" flat vertical edge all the way around , those are the two basic changes i wish the cars had when they came out,  but i can turn my imagination loose,,,, You guys would not believe what would have been

 Them ole Camaros,  best damn sporty car for the buck avalable to us US Americans,  but--Nothing is perfect.....
 Myself -I have always been pre-occupied with styling, and annoyed by  styling glitches that seem  last minute additions to clay full scale models added my ignoramous's'

The 67-and 8 got pretty close to perfect proportions for what they were, but having sufferd the same  abuse all you guys also agonized over..door dings...... The crease running down the length i would have  smoothed over and eliminated,  also since i have done custom pieces like a road racing front faring -even before  , I did not like the indented wheel well lips stamped in just to fit  the tacky  wheel opening trim ,  i would have just had a 1/2" flat vertical edge all the way around , those are the two basic changes i wish the cars had when they came out,  but i can turn my imagination loose,,,, You guys would not believe what would have been

 My first post was about the styling glitches,  as far as the chassis..........................
  the Camaro is technically Not a real car IMO,  ---a real one is --->  body on frame.  if I was the guy who could have made it happen back then the Camaro would have been a full framed car like the 66 chevelle,  the next best thing if I couldn't  vanquish the bean counters would have been extending the rails back to the point that the leaf springs front brackets would have been the rear ends of the rails--and if I could have done that it would have had  a 4 link and coils instead of those  single leaf jokes.

[Sauron327]

Better rust protection on sheetmetal.

Nothing has changed. Besides restos, I do a great deal of rot repair on new vehicles. As expected, they are not designed for longevity in certain geographical areas, unless measures are taken right after being driven off the lot.  And even still, some of the body areas are not accessable to deter failure. Many designs and products of new vehicles accelerate corrosion faster than a 60's car. In essence, I am restoring  6-10 year old vehicles by replacing rockers, floors and quarters.

[Oaklyss]

  Them ole Camaros,  best damn sporty car for the buck avalable to us US Americans,  but--Nothing is perfect.....
 Myself -I have always been pre-occupied with styling, and annoyed by  styling glitches that seem  last minute additions to clay full scale models added my ignoramous's'

The 67-and 8 got pretty close to perfect proportions for what they were, but having sufferd the same  abuse all you guys also agonized over..door dings...... The crease running down the length i would have  smoothed over and eliminated,  also since i have done custom pieces like a road racing front faring -even before  , I did not like the indented wheel well lips stamped in just to fit  the tacky  wheel opening trim ,  i would have just had a 1/2" flat vertical edge all the way around , those are the two basic changes i wish the cars had when they came out,  but i can turn my imagination loose,,,, You guys would not believe what would have been

There, I fixed the style problem:

[Sauron327]

Better rust protection on sheetmetal.

Personally, I've been pretty impressed by the degree of rust protection Chevy applied to the sheet metal parts.   The ONLY areas on my car which had any rust at all was under the battery (inner fender and frame rail) apparently where battery acid leaked onto the metal parts...  that isn't so bad for 45 years  IMO..     (Let's wait another 45 years and see how well the 'restored' cars do...   )

That depends on how and where your car was driven and maintained. What rust protection the factory applied was miinimal at best. Longevity does not ensure profit, obsolescence does. I bought my LOS car in '84. It had minimal rust. A '67 LOS I'm doing now is 99% rust free. Those cars would not be that way if driven in harsh conditions. Anyone who does quality restos is not concerned about repairs failing.

[BillOhio]

I have seen fairly late model dodge trucks here with the bed side rotted out and you can see a rope looking piece in there that didn't help the problem

[Sauron327]

I have seen fairly late model dodge trucks here with the bed side rotted out and you can see a rope looking piece in there that didn't help the problem

I just did full rockers and bedside repairs on an '04 Ram with 93K miles. That "rope" of which you speak is panel adhesive between the wheelhouse and bedside. That alone idoes not cause rot, many other design factors do. Same is true with any muscle car I've restored. Poor design and lack of proper rust preventative measures taken after purchase. Let's face it, how many people who bought a musclecar intended to keep it forever? They were a dime a dozen, beaten to death and discarded. Junked plenty of them over the years.

There is a blob of foam in the door jamb on first gens that causes rot; no different than the NVH(Noiise, Vibration, Harshness) used on new cars that does the same thing.

[69Z28-RS]

I understand what you guys are saying, and there is truth there...  but .. regardless of what the manufacturer does, it is incumbent on the owner/operator to maintain and preserve the vehicle.  I've always kept my vehicles 'clean' from new, even to washing out the wheel wells, and underneath, especially after having driven in nasty conditions (and I'm in the south, so opportunities to drive on salted roads have been very minimal, but I've driven in sandy situations, even on Daytona beach, but I have never failed after driving in situations where the undercarriage (and all it's nooks and cranny's) have opportunities to trap road salts, etc, .. I've always made attempt to *clean* underneath and 'flush out' all the salts and contaminants as soon after as possible.   I've used coin car washes and their high pressure washers much more often for washing underneath and wheel wells than I have for cleaning the top side of a car...

How many of those 'rusted down' cars you've worked on, do you think got treated to that kind of care?   Did the manufacturers PROOF their vehicles so that they'd last 40 or 50 years *regardless* of how they got treated?    No..  and should they have?   No again....  If the owner wants to preserve the things they own, they will..  otherwise..  they won't get preserved regardless of what the manufacturer did.

[Mike S]

I have seen fairly late model dodge trucks here with the bed side rotted out and you can see a rope looking piece in there that didn't help the problem

  You beat me to that observation, Bill. Same here too on Long Island...many new trucks with wheel opening rot. Looking closely at them I can see no matter how much care the owner does to the truck, that is still rotting from behind the paint and from an inaccessible cavity.
  It still amazes me how many old cars I see at shows that are still around even though they weren't designed to last what, maybe 10 years? Remember when reaching 100K miles on a car back then drew reverence and awe? Yep, they now needed and got some cosmetic help (sort of like people when we get older) but the fact remains if it's made in the USA, it's here to stay ("your mileage will vary" ) 

Mike