Fredd Gibb ZL 1 on eBay.. Rebodied?

[dannystarr]

So here is a nice car but it has been re-bodied. They always say in their adds in a very sly sort of way how it was done. This one was "Mated" with another 69 body. Now as far as I am concerned it is NOT the same car. It is NOT the same car that left the factory complete as a new ZL -1 427 Camaro. You can read the books, listen to the music, wear the clothes, watch old movies... BUT YOU CAN'T GO BACK!! I don't care if they have ALL the documentation in the world. It's not the same car! Why it's at 80K I have no idea. That means I can buy just a 427 that is for sale online with COPO documentation, but no car, throw it in a base model 6 cyl. landau top Camaro and call it a COPO? I don't think so Mr.   There is no trick to this. If you buy THIS car, you DON'T own a COPO... Sorry.. You own part of a car that USED to be a COPO! You wanna change some fenders and quarters with NOS parts, do yourself a resto, well then you STILL have the original car. I know you are not putting it in a 69' road runner. But just because you happen to pick the same model body, doesn't make it a REAL COPO! All the nuances and markins, hidden vin's are just NOT THERE... Right? Trying to make the cowl tag look like it belongs, hell it doesn't even look like a REAL tag. This is Camaro with a big engine. Estimated value = About 52 to 60K at the TOP... maybe... Danny

                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Camaro-COPO-ZL-1-Ultra-Rare-1969-COPO-ZL-1-Camaro-/331141175628?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d198d594c&item=331141175628&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[69Z28-RS]

I think we've had parts of this discussion before (recently?)...?     Word games.. and how people (selling something) play them.....

This is what the ad says:   "In the late 1970's early 80's the car was mated with another 69 Camaro body."

Hmmmm.. He doesn't say what the 'mating' produced..  if you 'mate' some portion of a '69 ZL1 to 'another 69 Camaro body', what does one get?  a baby Camaro?  What part of a '69 ZL1 camaro actually does a 'mating' that makes sense?  the engine?   the transmission?  the differential?  the VIN plate?   OR maybe it was the 'body' of the '69 ZL1 that 'mated' with the 'other 69 Camaro body'...  maybe THAT spawns a brand new fresh 'body' for the ZL1? ...  hmmm..  

Incidentally that was a very long mating..  from the late 1970's to/thru? the early 1980's?   Maybe such a long 'mating' can produce a brand new car?

I also noticed that Reggie Jackson was one of the prior owners, which triggered my brain to remembering *several Camaros* that Reggie has sold thru B-J in the past that incurred significant discussion/speculation as to those cars' actual history...   Was this car one of those?       

[Mike S]

 I was 'mated' with my wife in 1977...I am still the same original person!  

Mike

[69Z28-RS]

I was 'mated' with my wife in 1977...I am still the same original person! 

Mike

what would SHE say about that?   

[KurtS]

124379N609965  ZL1 #27

Here's the real story on the car: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/306777/1
Yes, it was rebodied in 76 - the floor had been completely hacked out of it - and it was sold as a drag car. The VIN was then removed from the drag car (with most of the #27 parts still on the drag car) and put on another body - the one for sale I believe.

[HawkX66]

124379N609965  ZL1 #27

Here's the real story on the car: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/306777/1
Yes, it was rebodied in 76 - the floor had been completely hacked out of it - and it was sold as a drag car. The VIN was then removed from the drag car (with most of the #27 parts still on the drag car) and put on another body - the one for sale I believe.

Wow, what a story. I hope someone can mate the real VIN tag back with the original body at some point. It's a shame to know they're separated. At least the guy that did it is open and gave up all the information about it. It makes the research a little easier for someone.

[69Z28-RS]

124379N609965  ZL1 #27

Here's the real story on the car: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/306777/1
Yes, it was rebodied in 76 - the floor had been completely hacked out of it - and it was sold as a drag car. The VIN was then removed from the drag car (with most of the #27 parts still on the drag car) and put on another body - the one for sale I believe.

Wow, what a story. I hope someone can mate the real VIN tag back with the original body at some point. It's a shame to know they're separated. At least the guy that did it is open and gave up all the information about it. It makes the research a little easier for someone.

Kurt, Thanks for re-referencing the Yenko site, where I finally read thru the entire thing, and it did refresh my memory, as this same 'car escapade' was reported on and discussed several years ago, when Reggie Jackson had the car and sold it thru B-J I believe (if my memory can be trusted).. and there was a big hubbub at that time re the history of #27 ZL1.

Hawk:  It seem that no 'single individual' orchestrated this whole escapade; instead it was a series of events, each subsequent event directed by different individuals.  I'd guess the probability of getting any two correct parts of the original car back together again is NIL.  I think it's best for all of us to just consider that #27 was converted/cutup/modified into a drag car, and the VIN got put on another 'odd collection' of parts which several people have tried to pawn off as #27.   The cutup drag car is closer to being the original #27, than is the car being passed off using the VIN.

[Charley]

excerpt from the SYC thread that tells what happened. This was posted by Chuck Sharin. He owned the car and parted it out

To whom may be interested, I call it an inept, young drag racer who wanted to have his newly built 69 Camaro C/SM drag racer a titled WA state car. The race car was never going to be insured, street driven or inspected.

I was the 2nd and LAST owner of the real #27 ZL-1, having bought it from Alan Green's service mgr, Dic Tutino in or around 1975. I was the one who parted the real #27 out in 1976.

I started the new C/SM car with a untitled junk yard 69 Camaro body shell. I moved the 609965 VIN tag from the #27 Body shell to the "new" C/SM body shell. Was this legal and correct ? NO......,however it was never my intent to to build or recreated anything and fraudulently misrepresent it.

ALL the misc sheetmetal, interior, frame, etc etc from #27 ZL-1 were used on the "new" C/SM car. along with the xfered 609965 VIN tag. I sold the turnkey C/SM race car around 1981 to Alan Martin Chevrolet in Bremerton, WA. Subequently Jim Brunz, Dave Barcelon have owned the C/SM car and it remains in WA state to this day, with all those ORIGINAL #27 ZL-1 parts.

After I sold the C/SM, it was "someone" else who (once again) removed the 609965 VIN tag and along with the 609965 WASH State title sold it to "whomever" had the current "#27" created. The present day "#27" has NOT one assy part that was part of the OEM #27 with the exception of that xfered 609965 VIN tag

I am not going to let some bodies power and popularity, keep me from revealing the truth. I understand I am a unpopular "nobody" from Seattle, whose 15 minutes of fame was over 30 years ago at Seattle Int'l Raceway (or Pacific Raceway back then)..........but the truth remains .............

[vtfb68]

So, Three more potential ZL1s from # 27 (the body, the motor, the VIN) out there waiting for the next sucker. I checked a ZL1 ( alloy blockand heads. . . anyway) this Saturday in San Diego, Owner stated that it was from a 69 Camaro. When I asked about the stamp pad he stated that it had been decked (pad was blocked) I asked about the casting date on the block and was told (as he quickly covered it back up) that it was no longer for sale. I'm sure this will at some point be a part of a "real" ZL1 in the future.
      VT

[KurtS]

> The cutup drag car is closer to being the original #27, than is the car being passed off using the VIN.

But the original shell still may survive somewhere. Remember, the drag car is not the original shell, it was rebodied.
The car is scattered. There's the shell (still with the trim tag), the dragcar with many of #27 parts on it, and this car with just the VIN on it.

[Azure1969Z/28]

Same car was listed on ebay for $375,000 last week. This time they took out the part of the story referring to the trunk pan being cut out to fit the slicks, the ensuing law suit against the shop that botched the work,the body replacement, the Ford 9" rear end added and the custom (I think it was a yellow and red paint job and 10 second quarter mile ets. All prior to the complete restoration.

[-vellu]

Relisted http://www.ebay.com/itm/331141175628

[67rs327]

The Secret Service needs to read this as its a clear case of of counterfeiting.

[Charley]

At least he is disclosing another body was used.