1969 paint code 52 Garnet Red, need help!

[Bryan302]

I need help from some of you veteran restorers.  I have a Garnet Red 69 Z/28 in the disassembly stages.  I have collected information from several paint suppliers, and the first was a Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000, and second Metalux Basecoat.  The chip the computer came up with for 52 Garnet Red was SR 640, but there was a Kagillion shades close to the SR 640.  I actually have been a PPG/Ditzler fan and would like to use PPG BC/CC.  My question to the CRG is what chip has been found to be the closest to the original 52 code Garnet Red?  Is this same code as in SR 640 the shade across the board for all brands of paint for code 52?

Secondly, Does the interior color, which happens to be red also, have a paint code?  This car has red deluxe interior and I will need to paint the dash, dash cluster, console, etc.  How do you find out what shade of red this would be?  What kind of paint has been found the best for painting the plastic parts like the dash cluster and the console?

Third, I have a question about the Z/28 stripes.  What do the judges say about modern paint jobs with BC/CC and the stripes being part of the paint job.  Originally the stripes were raised and could be felt by the touch.  Is this modern Technology a factor that is accepted by the Judges? Or is there a procedure for this?

Thank You in advance,
Bryan

[firstgenaddict]

ok if you have original paint on the cowl sides or etc have the paint scanned by your paint jobber.
Then spray out test panels to ensure color match, they will be closest if you have your original paint scanned.
You may have to try a few different mixtures or tint options to get the correct match, solid (non metallic colors) are much easier, but be patient.

Stripes: Single Step them over the base clear paint. You must be able to catch the edge with a finger nail.

Yes interior red is different, there was a zero gloss for the dash top and rear package tray trim. And a semi-gloss for the dash face.

[Bryan302]

Thanks firstgenaddict for the very helpful information.  What type of paint did you use on your Lemans blue car?, very nice restoration by the way!  A fellow camaro nut friend has suggested using a single stage urethane to get that laquer look.  I wasn't dead set on BC/CC, but I guess I'll have to bow up and decide, tough decision!

Thanks,
Bryan

[firstgenaddict]

I used Chromabase Premier BC/CC and then lay out, prep, and shoot the stripes over the top of the finished paint using Chroma One Single stage. (stripes should be over the BC/CC so the edge can be felt with your fingernail to be correct)

With non metallic cars I usually single stage using a catalyzed urethane then cut and polish them using 2000 grit, because as your friend states it does look more like lacquer than a BC/CC job.


A Red and black houndstooth 68 Z and a Red/Red 69 Z... nice cars, got any pics?

[69Z28-RS]

I agree with James' statements below, except for using the word 'correct', implying that a paint job on an early Camaro can be 'correct' using base coat / clear coat paints...  it might be the best choice using todays paints (for a metallic color), but it can never be 'correctly' restored with that type of paint. (Also recognizing that the major Camaro organizations that judge restored cars now seem to accept b/c paints without penalty).

With non metallic colors, one can use single stage urethane (as James states) with catalyst, and have just as durable a paint job as b/c urethanes, but be a little bit 'closer' to being 'correct', but still is not the factory original paint type.

That said, I follow the same process as James stated for metallic and non-metallic colors, as metallic don't lend themselves well to single stage paint and the sanding/buffing necessary to make it appear as lacquer.

[firstgenaddict]

Let me preface that statement....to be judged correct...   

HONESTLY I wish they would deduct points if it wasn't painted in lacquer and didn't have orange peel. 

[69Z28-RS]

James,

  I agree with the first part of that (lacquer painted car should get the *most* points, whether it be 'unrestored' cars (which may have had parts repainted), OR restored cars, with total repaints.   BUT...    I can't remember how many years it's been since I saw a factory 'lacquer' painted Camaro with orange peel; it was probably in the early '70's..      Lacquer is so soft compared to today's paints, that it didn't take too many washings, and polishing/waxings, to totally smooth down any orange peel that came out of the factory (Although, GM got credit for having the BEST factory finishes among the major manufacturers and a big part of that was their paint finish, as the lacquer did get a factory buffing (I think), OR the paint process didn't leave them much peel...   Even a new '77 Monte Carlo I ordered in mid '77 did not exhibit noticeable orange peel when new (although it was the worst designed new car I ever purchased).   I suspect the fast drying nature of lacquer minimizes probability of orange peel in the finish, along with it's softness that doesn't take much buffing to eliminate it.

[Heartbeat396]

Code 52 Garnet Red is PPG code 2076.  Formulation is still available in Lacquer, DCC-Concept Single Stage, DBC-Deltron 2000 BC/CC, Global BC-BC/CC or Global DG-Single Stage, plus all the value line products of OMNI and Shop Line.  Formulations are matched from the OEM standard supplied by the manufacturer.  It is possible to have a color shift in the factory applied color from car to car.  Interior trim color for low gloss code is Dark Red or Medium Red PPG code 71750 and 71751 respectively.  Flat color Dark Red is PPG code 71643 however these three colors are only formulated in the old DIA-Lacquer.  Depending where you are located it may be difficult to find a distributor who still mixes lacquer.  

[Bryan302]

Thank you Heartbeat396!  Your information was very helpful and what I needed.  I did not want to go to the paint store empty handed, not knowing myself what the paint codes were.  Now, I can do as James suggested above and get the original paint on the cowl scanned, which turned out to be one of the only places original paint was left on the whole car.  Now, what I'm hoping for is that the results of the scan match either PPG 2076 or SW SR640 straight up, without needing to vary the shade.  I think that would ease my pain and worries of getting the right shade.  This car has only been painted once, but they nearly did to good of a job!

Heartbeat396, do you know if those three codes for the interior paint can be crossed over to a more modern paint if they can't or won't do laquer?  What type of paint do I need to ask for to do the plastic parts as in the console and the dash / instrument cluster housing?  Is there an additive to make the paint stick to the plastic better?

Thanks,
Bryan

[VINCE Z28]

If you haven't sprayed lacquer before you should do a little practice. ie.. air pressures, reducers, etc.

[BULLITT65]

I thought it was near impossible to find lacquer these days , let alone find someone to spray it? Is there certain states that still allow it?

[abiddle]

Hey I'm sorry for reviving this thread, but I see most of you guys are still active so maybe I won't get torched. My restoration guy isn't sure of the paint codes for my 69 719 red interior. I offered to ask the experts. If you guys could help me out please, package tray and rear window sash and the dash. I have a few odd pieces that need paint too, rear speaker grills and defrost grill and front kickpanel speakers. All guidance and detailed info you can give me on gloss etc would be super helpful, I don't know anything about paint - seriously nothing.

Nearly all of the bodywork is done and he's probably a week from body paint. He already painted the hood and trunk, I do love 52 garnet.

Thanks!
Andy

[Bryan302]

Hey Andy,

Check out reply #7 above for the PPG interior codes.  As James suggested to me before, and I suggest it also.  GET SCANS!  This process is a hand held gun to scan the original painted surface.  Be sure you use the flex agent for your dash, kick panels and console, ask about this, the product to keep your paint from flaking off.  SCANS!

Bryan

[abiddle]

Thanks Bryan. I bought the red dye spray paint for the plastic/vinyl surfaces which I assume has the flex agent in it. Is there a reason to put the flex agent in the paint for the dash, or did you mean the dash pad?

I don't think my paint shop has the technology to scan painted surfaces.
Is there somewhere to find gloss levels for interior paint?
package tray
rear window sash
dash (under dash pad)

Thanks!

[Sauron327]

Thanks Bryan. I bought the red dye spray paint for the plastic/vinyl surfaces which I assume has the flex agent in it. Is there a reason to put the flex agent in the paint for the dash, or did you mean the dash pad?

I don't think my paint shop has the technology to scan painted surfaces.
Is there somewhere to find gloss levels for interior paint?
package tray
rear window sash
dash (under dash pad)

Thanks!

Your bodyshop uses a jobber, and they have a camera if the shop does not. Cameras are not magic; they get you in the ballpark. The paint codes already have the gloss levels in them, which is the amount of flattening agent added. 68 and 9 dash faces are 30% gloss, or satin.
Vinyl dyes and vinyl paints do not require the addition of flex agent, it is already in them. Some require the use of AP (adhesion promoter).
The package tray surround is zero gloss, suede finish, just like the dash top. Do a search, there is a thread with numerous photos of suede finish.