1969 Z exhaust and smog systems

[davoutdog]

Hi, I am new to the group.  I have an X33 1969 RS Z28 that I am having restored.  I am interested in originality, it will not be a hanger queen but driven a less than 400 hundred miles annually, and price is an issue.  About the car.  It is numbers matching engine and transmission.  It has 44,700 miles and I have owned it for over 23 years.  It was built the last week of January 1969.  It will be repainted the original Hugger Orange/Dover White and has the endura bumper.  The firewall still has the assembly line markings as wellThe original starter is being rebuilt and I have the original master cylinder in need of the same.  It does not have power steering and has the base interior. The only non-original items that I am aware of are 2 of the wheels were replaced with painted over chrome rally wheels before I owned the car, a rosewood steering wheel, and the battery (I have the original but dead).  It had headers when I bought it but they are rusted and in need of replacement.  I have them off but have not found any markings to know if they were OTC or after market.  There is no smog equipment. My questions:
1.   Is the value hurt by replacing the entire interior?  The carpet and dash pad are a must as is seat foam. I am of a mind to just replace that and the seat covers as they may not survive but have also heard that it might be best to do it all.  Sadly, I was in the Army and the car spent time in storage some mice got in and soiled the carpet and ate the build sheet (I know I feel bad enough already).  At least that is all they did.
2.  I wanted to go back to the original type exhaust but I don't really want the expense of the smog equipment so am considering headers like it has now. 

Any input would be appreciated.  I like as close to original as possible and certainly do no want to hurt the value but want to keep it affordable. Thanks in advance and I look forward to your comments.  Bryan

[dannystarr]

Bryan, welcome aboard... Good to have another fellow Camaro guy in the mix.    Could you post your VIN, Front engine pad, and maybe the trans build date numbers. Maybe even block build date and such. Also would be great to see a close-up picture of the cowl tag... Danny

[davoutdog]

The man that is repainting it is out of town until next weekend so it will be until then before I can get that info.

[tmodel66]

Bryan I put my original exhaust manifolds back on my car and plugged the holes where the smog tubes went. I couldn't find a date coded setup when I finished my car so I let it go. If I were in your shoes I would put the manifolds on and plug the holes like I did. Later on down the road when you can afford to spend money on it you can put the smog system back on. This way you have your manifolds and your new exhaust already on. Then all you need to do is bolt your smog system on and you won't have to spend more money getting another new exhaust system to replace the headers.  I'm assuming you are replacing the pipes and reusing the headers. If you put headers back on it's throwing good money after bad if you want to put it back with original manifolds later on.

[davoutdog]

Thanks, Daniel. I won't reuse the headers as they have some holes in them.  I toyed with going manifolds with chambered exhaust but the rest of the exhaust looks original (it needs to be replaced, though).  I was told that the headers were purchased from the dealer but we found no identifying marks so I do not know.  It does not have power steering and that with the headers has me thinking he was going a little more for performance so chambered probably was not on it.  If I knew the headers were the OTC type I would probably get replacements but if not, I would probably go with your plan.

[Jerry@CHP]

Regarding the interior parts needed, choose your replacement parts carefully.  Seems that the reproduction interiors are getting worse and not better.  Regarding headers, they were never available as an option in '69.  Only '67 and '68.  There would be issues with clearing the reverse lock out system on the '69 cars. 

The headers will make the car run much better.  If you need exhaust parts, Gardner is the only vendor that is spot on and makes quality stuff.  All of the cars we judge in Legends Certification have to have a Gardner system.  And, everyone who buys a Gardner system, never regrets it.

Jerry

[69Z28-RS]

I would *THINK* in any judging for originality, that original GM parts would score considerably higher than ANY replacement/reproduction part, such as Gardners....

[Jerry@CHP]

Yes these parts would be the best, but finding 46 year old parts such as exhaust system parts in excellent original condition is near impossible.  Also the fact that some of the pieces on original exh systems were welded in place.  Would be hard to do on a finished car? 

The Gardner systems are far beyond anything else on the market.  I have installed dozens and never an issue.  And, no I don't get paid for saying this.  They just make quality parts.

Jerry   

[Sauron327]

Not everyone who bought Gardner has done so without regrets: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9383.0 Maybe they resolved their issues by now.

[69Z28-RS]

Yes these parts would be the best, but finding 46 year old parts such as exhaust system parts in excellent original condition is near impossible.  Also the fact that some of the pieces on original exh systems were welded in place.  Would be hard to do on a finished car? 

The Gardner systems are far beyond anything else on the market.  I have installed dozens and never an issue.  And, no I don't get paid for saying this.  They just make quality parts.

I sold an NOS chambered system a few months ago, that I purchased in the mid 70's from GM, I'm sure I wasn't the only person who bought one and put it up.   At the same time I purchased the chambered system for 'someday use', I also bought the standard exhaust system and put it on my car, cutting the exhaust pipe for installation of headers.  That system is still very solid and good, but to reinstall my manifolds, I need new exhaust pipes.  Can anyone recommend as a source for 'most original' front exhaust pipes?

[jeff68]

Not everyone who bought Gardner has done so without regrets: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9383.0 Maybe they resolved their issues by now.

I just recently installed a Gardner system on my 68 L30 car.  The crimps on the muffler end caps are not perfect by any means, but they are not nearly as ugly as the ones on the muffler that pacecarjeff got.  The waves in the crimps are not too bad, and fairly symmetrical, so they don't look "out of place".  I'm pretty picky, and I think the waves in the crimps aren't noticeable once installed unless you are really looking for them.  The only issues I noticed were; 1)  the lack of slots on the muffler inlet pipes, 2)  the center hangers had to be pushed back a little for alignment, and 3) the RTV supplied for the joints is an acid cure RTV, which is not ideal for this application.

[69Z28]

Yes these parts would be the best, but finding 46 year old parts such as exhaust system parts in excellent original condition is near impossible.  Also the fact that some of the pieces on original exh systems were welded in place.  Would be hard to do on a finished car? 

The Gardner systems are far beyond anything else on the market.  I have installed dozens and never an issue.  And, no I don't get paid for saying this.  They just make quality parts.

I sold an NOS chambered system a few months ago, that I purchased in the mid 70's from GM, I'm sure I wasn't the only person who bought one and put it up.   At the same time I purchased the chambered system for 'someday use', I also bought the standard exhaust system and put it on my car, cutting the exhaust pipe for installation of headers.  That system is still very solid and good, but to reinstall my manifolds, I need new exhaust pipes.  Can anyone recommend as a source for 'most original' front exhaust pipes?

What is the actual O.D. on the Z28 headpipe? Is it 2" or 2.25"?

[william]

Jerry is correct-it would be VERY difficult to duplicate a production N10 Z/28 dual exhaust system. In fact if you had a complete NOS service system it would not be the same as production.

The first consideration is when the car was built. When chambered was recalled the Z/28 was changed over to the ’68 deep-tone muffler without resonators. Around April ’69 they went to the same muffler/resonator system used on the L48. This system had the head pipes welded to the resonators and the RH tailpipe welded to the muffler.

Mid-May ’69 they changed to “bright metal” tailpipes. Just got a big surprise here from Warren Malkin, a guy that has probably seen more original stuff than all of us combined. He has now examined several OE exhaust May-June cars and the LH tail pipe is NOT of the 2-piece construction as the right. What may have happened is the source had an excess supply of the standard LH tailpipe at the change and Chevy had a choice-scrap them or make them work. What it appears they did was to polish about 1/3 of the pipe and apply chrome over it-no nickel. There is an obvious difference in the finish between the pipes. At some point the LH tail pipe did change over to the 2-piece construction.

By the way big blocks did not use the interim “deep-tone” Z/28 system. The recall states L34 and L78 cars were to use the same system as the L48, meaning resonators. The famous undercarriage road test photos of ZL1 #3 shows the single muffler/dual resonator system-if you can imagine that.

Last month I pitched in to help install a Gardner system on a ’69. Very well made, carefully packaged, quality product.

[69Z28-RS]

so Gardner offers all those options??? depending on when your car was made?

[william]

No...