Twisted doors.

[lynnbilodeau]

Posting on multiple sites hoping for a good answer.
Both doors stick out just a little too much at the bottom rear. Right side is worse than left.
Front of door sits even with the rocker
Both are the original factory doors.
Car has never been hit, and no dents were taken out of the doors other than tiny door dings. All original sheet metal except for GM valance and header.
Yes, I had both doors off the car at one time to rebuild the hinges.
Factory hinges with new bushings.
I can't adjust them in at the bottom hinge or the front of the door is too far in and won't line up with the rocker.
I can adjust them out at the top hinge and make the back line up fine, but then the fender has to be moved out a corresponding amount at the top and the hood to fender gaps are unacceptable.

What am I missing?
Are the factory doors just that bad a fit?

[lynnbilodeau]

This is on a 69 Camaro

[Kelley W King]

If you have new weather strip it might be that some take a while to compress while some repop just does not fit. If you can push it in to alignment with your hand it is probably that.

[67 RS Ragtop]

My '67 has the same condition (again with original doors, that have not been removed), and after reading about this condition, I've been led to believe they need to be "adjusted" by removing the interior panels, inserting a suitable piece of wood and "tweaking" them. If you learn of an alternate method, I would be interested, as I haven't been inclined to do this, as of yet.

[lynnbilodeau]

Exactly what I thought. I actually improved the right one a little by having my wife hold an axe handle in the jamb at the top rear while I lay down and push on the bottom of the door with my feet. I spread the load out by putting a 30" 2x4 across the bottom of the door. It did make it better, but I wanted to see if there were any better alternatives before doing it some more.

Thinking I need to do this a little more before final paint. Good chance I would damage new paint.

BTW, there is no weatherstrip installed right now.  Car is in primer.

[tmodel66]

Lynn you do know the door is supposed to be a bit lower than the fender at the front to allow clearance for it to open without peeling paint in the jamb? With that said you will have to get the rocker fit first and on both sides then proceed to the hood fender gaps.  Are the gaps in the tolerance given in the AIM?  If so you'll have to live with it or bend it.  I have a gap on the right hood/fender I would like to be closer but it's metal to metal with no shims. It's in tolerance but still wide. The main thing is work both doors complete before you try to fit the hood. There is much to play with on hood adjustment.

[lakeholme]

Do a search on Team Camaro and NastyZ28, both have detailed threads about door adjustment. Not saying you won't get good advice here...

[lynnbilodeau]

Lynn you do know the door is supposed to be a bit lower than the fender at the front to allow clearance for it to open without peeling paint in the jamb? With that said you will have to get the rocker fit first and on both sides then proceed to the hood fender gaps.  Are the gaps in the tolerance given in the AIM?  If so you'll have to live with it or bend it.  I have a gap on the right hood/fender I would like to be closer but it's metal to metal with no shims. It's in tolerance but still wide. The main thing is work both doors complete before you try to fit the hood. There is much to play with on hood adjustment.

Yes, I do.  I actually filed the front "corners" of the doors just because I don't want that paint chip issue.  I had this door adjusted perfectly without the fenders on.   Did a trial fit of all sheet metal with the complete front clip before final paint.   That is when I discovered the hood to fender gap.  The front clip is now back off, but I know it is a perfect fit, and I know it will aso fit if I can get the door untwisted.  I have plenty of adjustment either way with the shims.   Just need to get the back of the door twisted a bit.

Going to try tomorrow once again having my wife put the axe handle in the top of the door jamb while I push the bottom with my feet.  When we did that the other day, I kept scooting away from the car as I pushed.   So, we are going to do it in the garage so I can have my back against the wall.  I defiinitely moved it just a bit, so hopefully can move it the rest of the way.  If I scratch the bottom of the door, I can always shoot another round of primer on it and block it.  If my right shoulder wasn't in such bad shape (having surgery on Dec. 7 and believe me, I can't wait - getting tired of pain meds just to get a few hours of sleep) I really believe I could hold the door open about 6 inches, just grasp the door at top and bottom and yank it by hand.

Phillip:  I have read the threads on door adjustment, but didn't find any about getting the twist out of a door.  I normally have no issue with adjustments like this.  I worked in a body shop right out of high school.  Of course, the technology today is so different, it is like comparing the telegraph to the internet.

[lynnbilodeau]

OK.   Got the twists out of both doors.  Right side took some serious effort.  Left side one pull.

Was going to use a chain bolted to the bottom of the car via seat belt bolt hole and rear suspension bolt hole.  But... someone mentioned ratchet straps.   Really didn’t want to use a chain as the underside is already detailed and didn’t want to scratch it.

I pulled out one of the giant ratchet straps, suitable for towing trucks.  Wrapped it all the way around the floors with both doors open.  Adjusted it just right for slack, which took a little trial and error..  Placed a 2x4 against the bottom of the door and used a 6 foot 2.x6 turned sideways for the lever.   Placed a broken axe handle in the top of the door jamb.  Took about 10 good hard pulls on the left side, but she lines up perfectly now.  Took only one on the right side.  We (my fabulous supportive wife and I) were able to put so much leverage on it that we had to pull hard on the top of the door to keep from picking up the right side of the car.

Took the camera out to take a pic of the procedure, but darn thing said the card was not readable.  Crap.

Now I have to go back out with the long board and see how bad I distorted the bottom of the door if any.  Keeping my fingers crossed

[lynnbilodeau]

As I suspected, the right side door ended up slightly distorted at the bottom where the skin is attached to the shell.  Long board (aluminim with no padding) showed it up right away.  Dinged down the high spot, sanded it again and will skim it with a very thn coat of sprayable filler.  Should be able to sand and paint tomorrow.

No distortion at on on the driver's door.

[JoBu]

Congrats on finding an approach that worked for you.  I do wish I could've seen the pics.  Both my doors are "out" at the top with a sizeable gap in the windows.  I need to find a video on how to adjust my doors (also a '69). 

[lynnbilodeau]

Of course the camera works fine now.

Really happy with how it came out.  Be glad to describe this procedure I used in more detail.  As for adjusting doors, I think there are several really good threads over at team camaro.   Main thing is to install the fenders and hood after you get the doors adjusted to make sure you can get those gaps where you want them.  I would have never known I had this twist if I had left the doors the way they were and not test fit the front clip.

As I said, I put a lot of pressure on it to get the twist out.  Lifted the car up off the jack stands a couple of times.  If I were doing this over, I would get the twist out before removing the doors.

Got the twist out Sat morn, took a long (17") aluminum sanding block to it to find a couple new high and low spots, worked them the best I could, sprayed a light coat of body filler, sanded it that night, shot with epoxy and a light coat of K36.  Sanded and painted the next day.  Wet sanded the whole car monday evening after work and layed on about 5 more coats of lacquer.

I guess I won't know until the whole car is polished, but right now I only can find one slight imperfection.  Right behind the back wiindow is a tiny dent maybe the size of a pea.  Hoping I can get t paintless dent guy to worik it out so I don't have to re shoot it.

Atthached is a pic of the previously offending door.   Just for kicks also included a pic of my hood.  That is my wife's reflection.  This is black lacquer and hasn't been polished yet.

[Sauron327]

PDR can't get the dent out if there is no access to the backside. They will drill an access hole if required. Do not cut and buff anywhere PDR needs to work. You'll see why if and when they come. They don't like very fresh paint. Twisting doors is common in this business. I've had repros that were out 1/2" at the bottom. When installing skins, the skinless shell needs to be hung and adjusted to the opening, then the skin fit before finishing the hemming procedure.

[lynnbilodeau]

Yeah, Scott, see what you mean on the PDR. I looked under there today and realized there is a double panel there.  Anyway, my wife, father in law and son all tell me there is no dent there.  I am pretty sure there is, although ever so tiny.  It is small enough that if it is within the white striped area no one will ever see it.  So I am going to measure for stripes and see where it is before deciding to fill it and reshoot the back.  Sucks being an amateur painting a black car.

I figured the twisted door was somewhat common since both of mine needed some help to get them perfect.