Official CRG Cap and T-shirt?

[IZRSSS]

J.R. - Here are the 3 caps you are considering. Please let me know which one of these you would like to have included on the above list so that it can be voted on.

BTW- the information you provided was outstanding!

Thanks,

Marty

[IZRSSS]

VOTING POLLS ARE OFFICIALLY OPEN!!!    

Front View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10198.0

Back View Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10197.0

T-shirt Color Poll; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10196.0

PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE AT ALL 3 VOTING POLLS ABOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

" The results can only be viewed after you have cast your vote."


Thank you!

Marty

BTW : If you have questions about casting a vote, please send me a pm (personal message).
"Simply select a number or letter located at the top of the page that matches you choice. Then press "Submit Vote", and your done.

[IZRSSS]

Gentleman - Some of you are not voting at all 3 polling places. Your vote will not count unless you do!  

Marty

[IZRSSS]

Below is the latest list of caps selected by CRG members to be voted on as the “Official CRG Cap”. If your cap is not part of this list…please get me the following information; Company name, website, & Cap ID# before the deadline below so I can include your cap on this list.
 
DEADLINE FOR YOUR CAP ENTRY: 11/30/12

Thanks guys!

Marty

[KurtS]

Prior to the polling, I specifically requested that GM licensing approval be obtained first.
"GM licensing approval is required due to the use of trademarked words. We won't approve without that so I think that getting GM approval should be #1 on the list. We should know that the efforts are going to happen before we invest more time and effort."
Per the request of the group, I'm going to suspend the polls until this approval is in-hand. Since the shirts wouldn't be made until spring, this should not impact the timing.
I'd also suggest using the time to agree what's going to be in the back-of-the-shirt poll.

The group also asked me to note two other things:
1) We reserve the veto power on any design using the CRG name and or logo.
2) The project must be revenue neutral (relative to the CRG) with full transparency of monies and operation, and we reserve the right to cease this venture if things aren't going well.

Thanks guys!

[BULLITT65]

question:
1. Wouldn't GM licensing approval be required to have a website called "CAMARO" Research Group ?
2. Wouldn't GM Licensing been needed to have made the hats the first time?
3. Does CRG have approval already from either of these 2 prior trademark issues?

I was just thinking maybe you have crossed this bridge already?

[IZRSSS]

Kurt- I respect your decision and I was wrong to move forward with this venture w/o your approval; my apologies. And like I mentioned before, I’m actually quite relieved. However, I would like the opportunity to tell my side of the story due to your money statement…

We fully intended to have full transparency of all monies and operation. In fact I personally forwarded this information to you along with a scheduled outline of which you responded; “No issue with any of this. Someone would have said something way earlier if there was. . Thanks for being the motivating force behind this!” This was after we were well into the on-line discussion.

Everything dealing with finances was going to be at cost. What's to hide?
 
As for #1 – The only reason I invested so much time & energy was because I thought this would allow members the opportunity to select a design to help promote CRG for all the help you've given us. And I was hopeful this could occur w/o inside influence. Obviously this wasn't or cannot be the case.

I hope at some point you will find some of the graphics I posted useful. But due to the circumstances above…this is as far as I'm willing to take this.
 
Again, my apologies.

Marty

[KurtS]

question:
1. Wouldn't GM licensing approval be required to have a website called "CAMARO" Research Group ?
2. Wouldn't GM Licensing been needed to have made the hats the first time?

Good questions.
1. No, we are not selling anything. Which makes me wonder if any company that uses it in their name, e.g. Camaro Specialty, has to?
2. I think at the time we made up 10 or 12 hats and almost noone knew about them. This time, it's a lot more public.

Kurt- I respect your decision and I was wrong to move forward with this venture w/o your approval; my apologies. And like I mentioned before, I’m actually quite relieved. However, I would like the opportunity to tell my side of the story due to your money statement…

We fully intended to have full transparency of all monies and operation. In fact I personally forwarded this information to you along with a scheduled outline of which you responded; “No issue with any of this. Someone would have said something way earlier if there was. . Thanks for being the motivating force behind this!” This was after we were well into the on-line discussion.

Everything dealing with finances was going to be at cost. What's to hide?
 
As for #1 – The only reason I invested so much time & energy was because I thought this would allow members the opportunity to select a design to help promote CRG for all the help you've given us. And I was hopeful this could occur w/o inside influence. Obviously this wasn't or cannot be the case.

I hope at some point you will find some of the graphics I posted useful. But due to the circumstances above…this is as far as I'm willing to take this.
 
Again, my apologies.
Marty

Marty,
The only issue is getting the GM approval first. That needs to be resolved before we get into the final details of the design. Without that, the whole discussion is moot.
I can't find the contact for licensing, so I'd suggest trying Customer Assistance - 1.800-222-1020.
The cost statement was due to a realization that the group doesn't want any of the complications of dealing with profits - both tax-wise and relative to obtaining GM licensing. The transparency is already there, so that's a non-issue. Sorry you took that as an insult.

[BULLITT65]

Marty you have done quite a bit here, If you want I can call the 800 number tomorrow and try to get the ball rolling on that part.

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - You just don’t get it do you. Why should GM’s approval for “Camaro” dictate whether or not we move forward with the vote? Wouldn’t it be nice to have that dilemma behind us? I don’t think you realize how much efforts involved and then to simply have someone delete all your hard work on a whim. Did you delete it because GM told you to or because certain individuals didn’t get their way?

I did everything within my power to keep the discovery as fair as I knew how. And I think I did a pretty darn good job of it. Again, this isn’t about the select few. This is about the members who frequent your site who without you have nothing. If they don’t have a chance to vote their designs I don’t want any part of this…period!

Move forward with the dad gum vote and worry about the design refinements latter.

[BULLITT65]

I feel your pain Marty, it doesn't seem like us voting on a potential design would be a trademark infringement. You are a hero member to me! =)
 I do not know who makes up "the group", and I am unaware what motivates them, but it seems like a measure of control may factor in. I hope Marty's passion, as well as everyone else who took the time add their input as to the design sees the fruit of their labor here.
 It seems like while all the designs are fresh in our heads, and all the time and effort were spent to get us this far, that a poll to narrow down the design of the shirt front and back, and color would make sense. I don't think any of us wants to read through 20 pages of this thread in a month or 2 just to get back up to speed on the design.

Kurt, as far as the concerns of "the group" regarding veto power of the design, you may have wanted to include a statement saying that the design choices that had been posted thus far were not objectionable to "the group" and that as a group you support a vote of the design based on the current choices. I am sure you didn't mean to offend anyone with your comments, but combined with your actions, it didn't seem like it reflected the best intentions of a "CRG Coordinator". 

I guess my question would be:
Is this website designed to be a collective effort of all the members working together for the greater good of the hobby, including voting democratically on such trivial things as a T-shirt design?
Or is the idea for this site to collect ideas and information from everyone, and then let a select few dictate which direction and which content will be posted or polled on?

[KurtS]

Sorry to offend. If you've been on other forums, you should know I take a very hands-off approach to the CRG forum. This is one of the first times I've intervened. But my first posts in this thread mentioned the GM approval. My second post reiterated it. In my conversations with Marty, I was clear it needed to happen first. And the CRG group was clear with me - they didn't want this to proceed without the GM approval.

None of the polls were deleted, they are just hidden.

And yes, noone has noted any issues with the design. They just wanted to be make sure the design properly represents the site. In retrospect, I should have not put that in and just told them to review the designs that have been presented.

The group: http://www.camaros.org/aboutcrg.shtml#Members

Instead of arguing, who has contacted GM?

[BULLITT65]

I volunteered myself to contact GM tomorrow, to get the ball rolling with that portion of this project. If I get far enough down the line to get approval on this, is there a particular email or fax number I should have them send over an approval to? if there are certain details I should get in writing please send me a personal message, or spell out what it is we are specifically looking for from them so I am requesting the right thing and not wasting anyones time.

Kurt thank you for your response, as well as any pertinent info that will aid me in my communication efforts with GM.

[IZRSSS]

Kurt – There is no question in my mind BULLITT65 would be a great choice to take the lead in acquiring GM’s licensing approval, but before he does; why is this being delegated to members other than the core group? You haven’t given anyone your reasoning for this. Wouldn't it be more advantages for the core group to take the lead in this? Please be as specific as you can.

BTW; I am pleased to read your comment with respect to Reply 304, group note...#1.

Marty

Thanks -A-

[IZRSSS]

Kurt - In addition; as for placing GM licensing at the top of the outline above; I think we’re setting BUILLITT65 up for failure. What is the first thing he’ll be asked by GM? My guess would be; “what is CRG’s intended use of the word “Camaro”?” What is B-65 going to say? “Well, we have these 10 or maybe 11 or 12 T-shirt design ideas we are currently working on. But we still don’t know”.

My reason for listing the Pollings 1 & 2 on that same list is because I wanted to make certain we had something definitive to show GM. My thoughts are without this information, GM will simply kick everything back, thus losing valuable time. This coming Spring doesn’t seem like it’s that far off. But you’d be surprised at how fast time fly’s. And I do not want to place undue pressure on Steve.