are cowl and trim tags painted

[festival]

Thats a version of the guy with the poor eyesight story.  The only problem with that theory is that it was done post paint line, since that is when the body black on the firewall was painted onto the tub and the white e=overspray would have to of occurred after that, either in the trim shop, or even later as it went over to GM.  At the point the cowl was painted black all of the options Fisher had to add to the car were complete except the color and style of the interior.  There would have been no reason to even glance at the cowl tag at that point, since the interior would already be on the line in the sequence that the bodies were coming down the line.  And not every car has it.  I'm not a beleiver.

The only thing GM needed to see on the cowl tag (or the BBC hanging on the car is the body number, since that was the tie to the original dealer order that defined what options went on the car untilt GM assigned a VIN to it.  After that, there was no info anyone on the GM side needed. 

I've seen them as early as 11C in 66 all the way thru 06C in 67.  A lot in the 03C thru the end of the year, but intermittent thru out the rest of the time.  Not every original one has it, but its hard to tell if others that have had spraybomb engine compartment restorations have it.  They definitely had paint applied here and there and figuring out why is what is called RESEARCH.   There doesn't seem to be any obvious option associated with it, like every custom interior car got it, or every vinyl top car got on, or SS's and Z28's got it.   They also started doing it for a reason, and quit doing it for some reason, as there are none in 68 or 69 with white paint on them.  What changed in the process, again research, not anecdotal story telling.  I don't know why they did it, but I do know it did Fisher no good, by the time it was painted.

Mark,

I have alerted some of the Norwood retirees to this thread and we have talked-so....How about you be my personal guest at the Friday Night Panel discussion where assembled before you will be Engineers, Managers, Production Superintendents, and Line personnel.     

Perfect opportunity for you to tell them exactly how things operated at the plant - that they operated.

Seriously--I will give you a seat right up front.  This will be an expanded event and I am sure you will enjoy the experience.    So let's correct the record on how production ran and the line operated how about it Mark care to take us up on it?

[Mark]

You paying my air fare?

Answer me this one question?

What parts did Fisher add to the car that are specified on the cowl tag, post Firewall blackout?

I do not question that some tags (50-60% ?) have the white paint applied, I'm just wondering what good it did Fisher at the point it had to be sprayed on the tag.  And if we assume that they quit doing it in 68 and 69 because the amount of info on the tag no longer documents anything other than interior and exterior colors and if the car had style trim or not then that means it was not used by the GM side of the plant for anything, since they only needed the body number.

[festival]

You paying my air fare?

Answer me this one question?

What parts did Fisher add to the car that are specified on the cowl tag, post Firewall blackout?

I do not question that some tags (50-60% ?) have the white paint applied, I'm just wondering what good it did Fisher at the point it had to be sprayed on the tag.  And if we assume that they quit doing it in 68 and 69 because the amount of info on the tag no longer documents anything other than interior and exterior colors and if the car had style trim or not then that means it was not used by the GM side of the plant for anything, since they only needed the body number.

No sadly I cannot pay your expenses.. You rambled on for the better part of two paragraphs and capped it off by saying that you" did not know why it was done"..

So you are being offered a fair chance to find out. 

The entire story of the tag painting episode is memorialized in the book including a photo of a car with a painted tag... you could buy the book.

Invite and the chair up front still stands.  The retirees are intrigued as to what you can educate them on.

[Mark]

See question one above, you've stated it was for fisher benifit so they could read the info on the tags easier what were they looking for after body black out occurred?

Obviously is someone sprayed a tag white somewhere between body black out in the Fisher paint shop, and front doghouse drop on the GM side, the tag would still be white, GM didn't tought the paint on the tub unless they took a ding out of it after it arrived, so that picture indicates it was done, which we both agree happened.

The retirees are more than welcome to post their views here or anywhere else they feel comfortable doing so.

[festival]

See question one above, you've stated it was for fisher benifit so they could read the info on the tags easier what were they looking for after body black out occurred?

Obviously is someone sprayed a tag white somewhere between body black out in the Fisher paint shop, and front doghouse drop on the GM side, the tag would still be white, GM didn't tought the paint on the tub unless they took a ding out of it after it arrived, so that picture indicates it was done, which we both agree happened.

The retirees are more than welcome to post their views here or anywhere else they feel comfortable doing so.

Mark,

I have made no statements within this thread whatsoever as to why the tags were painted. 

The Norwood retirees are more than happy to meet you face to face however.  

The offer stands.

[Mark]

As expected, you have no wish to discuss things logically or broach any topic that does not fit your model, or share any of your thoughts with the rest of the hobby.

A) we know that Norwood painted SOME cowl tags white. - No argument (Seems like it started around 11C - maybe earlier but thats the earliest tag I can find with white paint on it)
B) we know it took place after body blackout - otherwise it would be under the blackout.
C) After body blackout the only station left on Fishers side was the trim shop (Yes/no?)

So the tag was sprayed so the guys in the trim shop could tell if a car needed style trim, or interior molding, tinted glass, standard or deluxe seatbelts, a manual or power top, or some large bumper gaurds?  I'm going to assume they could tell it was an RS, or needed a remote control mirror?  Because everything else on the tags was already done to the car, by the time it hit the front of the paint booth.

If it wasn't for the Fisher guys, and GM did it, when did it happen and who needed the info.  Does the logic not flow, am I missing some huge peice of the puzzle?

[festival]

As expected, you have no wish to discuss things logically or broach any topic that does not fit your model, or share any of your thoughts with the rest of the hobby.

A) we know that Norwood painted SOME cowl tags white. - No argument (Seems like it started around 11C - maybe earlier but thats the earliest tag I can find with white paint on it)
B) we know it took place after body blackout - otherwise it would be under the blackout.
C) After body blackout the only station left on Fishers side was the trim shop (Yes/no?)

So the tag was sprayed so the guys in the trim shop could tell if a car needed style trim, or interior molding, tinted glass, standard or deluxe seatbelts, a manual or power top, or some large bumper gaurds?  I'm going to assume they could tell it was an RS, or needed a remote control mirror?  Because everything else on the tags was already done to the car, by the time it hit the front of the paint booth.

If it wasn't for the Fisher guys, and GM did it, when did it happen and who needed the info.  Does the logic not flow, am I missing some huge peice of the puzzle?

Mark I do not need to discuss it here.  This topic is discussed in detail in the book. 

However if I wanted to expand on the topic in this thread you provide little incentive to do so, as with your accusatory attitude you will likely continue to take any answer provided in endless circles.

For the others monitoring this thread - I will say for the record that the process concerning the tag painting was a very minor human element related aspect of production (for 1967 only) and is pretty thoroughly examined in the book.

www.norwoodassemblyplant.com

Phil Borris

 

[69Z28-RS]

Maybe you could provide the appropriate excerpt from the book here?  for all of us to see and discuss and understand?   i'm sure there was a reason for everything they did, and it likely had something to do with cost or efficiency... 

[69Z28]

Yes. I would have to agree as well. Put this baby to bed!!

[festival]

Who ever has a copy of the book.. You have my permission to quote the passage from the book that is particular to this topic here in this thread.

Quite a few of you have it BTW...

[KurtS]

That's disappointing. You won't discuss the topic or answer any direct questions. 'See my book' is not really a discussion point.

[HOT3O2]

I guess we have to buy the book to get the answer. That's one way to sell them.

[KurtS]

It was production related. And to see it , however because the workers resisted the new computer generated  "body broadcast" print out so the trim tag containing the option content was sprayed white to make it easier to see major option content at a glance.

The trim tag had very different info than the broadcast sheet.
Fisher had the UOIT sheet which acted as an enlarged trim tag. I've definitely seen original 67 NOR tags without white paint. Other plants didn't paint the tag, btw.

The broadcast sheets had been around for a while, they were not new. And they were for Chevrolet, not Fisher so they aren't relevant here.

[festival]

Works for me.  I have over $10K in receipts for travel and expences for the research alone.

To those who support the book - my sincerest gratitude is extended.

[Mike S]

 My original 67 NOR 5B tag was not painted but this topic is interesting never the less.  I would like to see this discussed by those who state they know the answers, and to show supporting documentation where it exists is always a plus. This is a free group to join so their (Engineers, Managers, Production Superintendents, and Line personnel) registration would be most welcomed and their contribution invaluable. Case in point, John Z., who has been directly involved in portions of the manufacturing never hesitates to share is knowledge within this research group. People like that are an invaluable resource to learn from and build a solid knowledge base for all to share with others.
 I haven't been in this group long but I have seen some topics that stated one thing and after several people put their information forward  including photos, documentations, etc... that the beliefs at that time changed. One thing that comes to mind was the use of a brass oil line bulk head connector on 67 Camaros. It went from being believed it was an after market item to now an accepted fact that it did exist, but only from getting input from many people. So, the CRG beliefs can change providing there is enough supporting evidence. This white tag topic is no different. If there are those who really know and can answer the questions people like Mark put forth, then I hope they register and come forward.

Mike