radiator option for 375HP 396

[black69]

I learned recently that the heavy duty curved neck heavy duty radiator or straight neck heavy duty radiator (both like those on a copo) was not a default must have choice on cars with a 4.10 rear end. I know a few guys that thought it was a given on a 4.10 car, but when 6 of these cars showed up at a show recently, only 2 had the larger thicker core radiator. It shows up on the window sticker as an option for around $14 on the ones that have it. one of the 6 cars was an L89 car and did not have it.
I guess the moral of the story is you had to know to order that copo style radiator on a 396, it did not come as a must have choice on 4.10 cars.

[KurtS]

Yup, see Radiator Variables in http://www.camaros.org/coolingsystems.shtml

And I'm a doubter that the window sticker was real. According to the factory docs (and the thousands of cars we've seen), V01 was not available with a 396.

[black69]

The best example car a chevy vettefest (recent chicago show) was next to mine was a perfect every piece of paperwork car from california. He had all original documents on a lemans blue car. I am not kidding, bill of sale docs, window sticker, order sheets, you name it. He bought it from a woman in california (original owner) who ordered it to pull a ski boat, when he got the car it still had a hitch. On a few of his original documents there was that HD radiator option for $14 or so, then I went and asked the judges about that when I saw that. Its on the window sticker for sure, and it was an original. RS/SS with tilt wheel.

[tom]

Unfortunately, there is no document made that can not be faked. Learning how to spot the fakes will continue to become more and more difficult.

Tom

[KurtS]

And I'm still a doubter.
With a picture of the docs or even the VIN (we might already have data on the car), we can normally tell if it's real.

[black69]

I will work on getting a copy, the car was judged with 'original documents, not copies' at that chicago show. I do know the car was an LA car if that means anything. It won a gold spinner award if that is quickly traceable for a VIN. I had to provide a VIN for that show and it shows up on the documents you get awarded.

[black69]

I talked to the owner of the blue car L78 car today (4.10 4spd), and he said he will send or post his dealer order form sheet to Kurt or on this thread. I am bringing this item to the top so he can find it when he visits this website. The HD radiator was ordered and is on the dealer order paperwork but its not on the window sticker. It will be interesting to see what he posts considering he has the original documents.

I did note the white L78 car survivor car (4.10 auto) in the latest hemmings muscle magazine as of late came with the curved neck radiator with it not being ordered.

[william]

There may be an answer.

In the April 1969 version of the Camaro Dealer ordering info the description for 'G80' changed as follows:

All rear axle ratios except 3.73 or 4.10...$42.15
 
Also includes HD radiator...$56.90

I interpret this to mean that if Chevys configurator decided the car needed HD cooling it was added at additional cost since there was no way to specify it-both options were G80. That means an L78 with 3.55 posi did not get the HD radiator and the G80 price was $42.15. An L78 with 3.73s did get the HD radiator and the G80 price was $56.90. I have several window sticker copies that show both.

Around June 1969 Chevy no longer included positration with COPO 9561 making it a mandatory option at the $56.90 pricing.

[black69]

wow, that helped clear up my thoughts. Cars made aroung april and there after, with a 3.73-4.10 get the larger radiator and it should be $56.90 for the axle ratio price (on the window sticker). so on a dealer order form the HD cooling for 14 had to be checked off to add to the 42 to add up to 56 (like what i expect is the case on the blue LA built car).

That probably explains why the L89 and a few L78 cars I have seen did not have that radiator, they had to be pre april cars.

[william]

No-HD cooling included with Positration was a decision driven by a 'configurator' which may have been a manual process in those days. You couldn't order it; Chevy just built the car that way. They had to warranty them and if engineering dictated more cooling for a particular option combination it was added.

[KurtS]

In the April 1969 version of the Camaro Dealer ordering info the description for 'G80' changed as follows:

All rear axle ratios except 3.73 or 4.10...$42.15
 
Also includes HD radiator...$56.90

I thought I looked into this before - I thought it said something about non-SS cars.

But I just looked and found 4 cars that fit that very specific combination ((1) 3.73 &  (3) 4:10), build date range, and that we have docs on. All four are the higher price.

So this explains the later 3.73 and 4.10 cars with a 4 core. But it doesn't explain the earlier and the 3.55 axle cars with 4 cores. I think they were just in-plant substitutions due to inventory issues.
I even have the broadcast sheet for one of the 3.55 cars and it calls out a 3 core but it got a 4 core. Which points to substitution on the line.

[black69]

Kurt, so does the following need a re-write a bit, below is what is in your reference material...

'A heavy-duty (HD) radiator was available by ordering either of two options. Regular Production Option (RPO) V01 was the heavy-duty radiator option and was available with all engines except the Z28 or big block engines. All vehicles optioned with air conditioning (RPO C60) also received a HD radiator.

Axle ratio did not affect the radiator usage with one (unverified) exception. In the April 1 1969 revision of the dealer ordering information, it states that Positraction Rear Axles: Ratios 3.73 or 4.10 without Special Performance Package (Z28) or 396 engine "also includes HD radiator" and the MSRP is $56.90. This means that a SS350 (or L65 or 307) with 3.73 or 4.10 gears would automatically get the V01 radiator. This would also apply to COPO 427 cars (and the higher price showed up on some later COPO window stickers), but they already received a 4 core radiator as part of the COPO package. '

[KurtS]

Yup, the ordering info said it didn't apply to Z or 396 engines. But it looks like it does apply to L78.

I'll update after I dig into this a little more to make sure.