Correct starter restoration

[68camaroz28]

I have noticed on some original (survivor) starters the end cover (not the nose end) seems to be phosphated and not painted black similar to the main black body noted to be 30-60% gloss black. Since I do have a picture to post I found a thread where JohnZ showed a picture of a 67 Corvette starter that displays exactly what I'm referring to. http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4562.0 What is the consensus on the end cap, 30-60% gloss black or? The two screws that hold that cap on seem to be normally phosphated. Is that correct?

[NoYenko]

Chick, can't say I remember exactly but that looks correct. Thought I'd post John's picture to make it easier. And thanks for updating on the fasteners, allot on that list will cross over to my 69 and that will save me allot of time. George

[JohnZ]

That photo was intended to show the starter brace, not the starter end cap finish. I honestly don't recall if the end cap was painted or phosphated, but I sent John Pirkle Jr. a note and asked him to clarify it. Will post his reply when I get it.

[68camaroz28]

As always thank you John! I had kept that in my files (CRG link) as it showed the zinc screw but as time went on I realized this along with a couple others seemed to indicate the phoshpated end cap. RIP John Pirkle and glad his son is keeping the legacy his father started going. They did our alternator, horn relay, and voltage regulator for our 68l.......

[68camaroz28]

That photo was intended to show the starter brace, not the starter end cap finish. I honestly don't recall if the end cap was painted or phosphated, but I sent John Pirkle Jr. a note and asked him to clarify it. Will post his reply when I get it.

John, did you ever receive a reply from John Jr.?

[JohnZ]

John, did you ever receive a reply from John Jr.?

Nope, he must be busy.

[68camaroz28]

John, did you ever receive a reply from John Jr.?

Nope, he must be busy.

Thanks for trying John but found several quotes (info) from JohnP Jr while searching the NCRS discussion forum including the following: Per John Pirkle Jr, "All of the information Dad and I have collected(archives,pictures,and interviews with engineers and line workers from the early 50s through the early 80s) shows that the starter was painted as an assembled unit,so the rivets,pole shoe screws,etc.would also be painted.The solenoid was masked in some instances,so you saw both painted and plated units. I have seen NO credible evidence of starters delivered with an unpainted drive end or commutator end.There would be a greater possibility of a completely unpainted starter.Typical factory production was to paint the entire starter."  He also added "One of the assembly line workers we talked to started in starter assembly and later became a line supervisor.He told us that the starter was painted as an assembled unit(with solenoid)A protective "clip" was placed on the solenoid to keep it from getting painted.The starter was hung on a conveyor belt and run through a paint booth where it got a coat of black paint(semi-flat)He gave us some pictures from his time in the plant that supported his story.At times the clip got left off(leaving a painted solenoid)and at times a starter left the paint booth with no paint(due to a jammed gun, the need to pick your nose etc.) From a production stand point,this procedure makes sense,and the photographs he gave us are an excellent verification."  Info from this NCRS thread dated April2010  Additional paint info from JohnP Jr in another NCRS thread, "Not all the solenoids were painted black.They also could have been silver zinc plated I have photos of the assembly line in the late sixties with a protective clipon shield over the plated solenoid as the starter goes through the paint process. Dad has had several interviews with assembly line workers that confirms the photos information. We have not been able to determine any rhyme or reason as to why some were plated and some painted,or that the year has any bearing on which would occur."
Most interesting the statement of semi-flat Black as well....... I just checked my friends 68Z/28 survivor and the alum nose is painted black (not the solenoid) while his and others that I have checked (yes, extremely small population or random sample) seem to confirm the more satin black then any semi-gloss black but that might be a mute point?

[169INDY]

Cleaned up and rebuild (Home DIY) my 1108367 7M6

Some as found paint coverage and inspection mark.

JIM

[Buzz67]

The Pirkles did my alternator and the car's born-with starter. It came back as described in Chick's post, with the entire starter (other than solenoid) painted black. Hope this helps!

Buzz

[169INDY]

Yes, I Like Johns product, We Overhaul 160hp DC motor for Submarines at work, I can Handle the starter motor.  I sure wish he was doing Volt reg & Horn relays again. It will be restored as found w/ nose coverage and graffiti on the frame under the black paint. It has been a fund project, I was thinking of a Photo (DIY) posting in the restoration section to aide others attempting. It has been an enjoyable project, I just hate doing Alternators, I will stick with the 1.5 mega watt ones at work.

JIM

[Mike S]

The Pirkles did my alternator and the car's born-with starter. It came back as described in Chick's post, with the entire starter (other than solenoid) painted black. Hope this helps!

Buzz

What is the P/N on the solenoid? I have the original starter in my 67 04B LOS L35 and the solenoid still has remains of black paint. The solenoid P/N is 1114362.

Mike

[Buzz67]

The Pirkles did my alternator and the car's born-with starter. It came back as described in Chick's post, with the entire starter (other than solenoid) painted black. Hope this helps!

Buzz

What is the P/N on the solenoid? I have the original starter in my 67 04B LOS L35 and the solenoid still has remains of black paint. The solenoid P/N is 1114362.

Mike

OH GOSH, Mike! I don't know! It was whatever the Pirkles put on there when they restored it. I simply checked the starter P/N and date and was stunned to learn it was the born-with starter for the car. There were a LOT of components I had to purchase to get the original motor date correct again and the starter was one of the FEW things that didn't land on the list of things to correct or replace. But I believe it had been serviced and the original solenoid replaced.

The second owner of my car had a brother that owned a garage and towing service. This brother also drag raced every Sunday. So, not only was the car serviced there, it also got a hop up treatment. This involved a spreadbore Holley, Accel distributor, Hookers and a set of Lakewood traction bars. The stock 3.08 gears got replaced with 3.73s. I was lucky enough to recover the born-with exhaust manifolds. But the original carb and distributor were gone forever, as was the water pump. The rear gears I didn't care about. I don't like high ratio gears.

As with everything else, I'm sure the solenoids have a date on them somewhere. To be honest, I never checked it to see if it was date correct. I believe the Pirkles replaced the solenoid that was on the starter when I sent it to them. And the starter is already on the  car. Can the P/N and date code be seen and read as installed in the car?

[Mike S]

I don't think solenoids are dated. At least the original ones I have aren't.

Mike

[stovebolt]

This is the starter on my survivor '68 L6 coupe. The starter has never been removed from the engine. The solenoid is a GM replacement installed in the mid 90s.