69 z/28 what to with it?

[cjm465]

  I have a 69 Z/28 ( x-77, 01C build date, 124379N586xxx) that is not a very well optioned car. The only option I see is a vinyl roof, not even a factory tach. I don't have any documentation on the car but I have owned it since 1988. There is no question that it is a real Z. The original DZ-302 is long gone and was not there when I purchased the car. I believe the M-21 and 12 bolt are original to the car. The car is in need of a restoration which will include floors and such, but it is driveable.

 So I guess I would like opinions of what to do next with it. Putting together a DZ-302 would be too costly as I have tried to price one by pieces or purchase it whole. The car does have in it a 396 (1969  JK 396 325 hp Chevelle SS). I am thinking about doing a Yenko Clone with the car. Would this be stupid to do with a real Z ? How much is a  Z/28 without the DZ and in need of a restoration worth on the market roughly ? Again the car is very restorable. Do I sell it and just make something out of a base model ? Do I restore it and put a small block in it to look like it belongs there ? Restoring and making a Yenko Clone is my easiest route as there is a big block in it even though it is not correct.

 Any of your thoughts are appreciated.

[hotrod68]

For my 2 cents there is no way I'd clone it to a Yenko--that's for grocery-getter 307 slugs with 3-speeds and 10-bolts. Even though the car isn't highly optioned, the main option checked on the order sheet was Z/28! I have no idea what the market value of a '69Z without a DZ engine is, but if everything else is original it would be a sacrilege to destroy a 1st-Gen Z in my book. They're getting more scarce every day, and even though you have a Rat in it, the Rat is not a 427! Try building a COPO 427 and a DZ 302 will seem cheap! And you'd have to replace the front springs with big-block springs. Even worse, you'd have to remove the Z 4-leaf rear springs for 5-leaf big-block springs, and the list goes on and on. For what it's worth, if it were me I'd build a nice 350 or 400 that looked aesthetically correct and enjoy the car. The 302s weren't torque monsters anyway, and the extra cubes would make it a blast to drive. 

[lakeholme]

Don't clone it!
Hotrod is right.  The fact that it is a Z is major.
Even thought it is a Chevelle 396 motor, 396 motors were also very desirable.
You got the best of all worlds there. 
The value of any Camaro is going up!

[jdv69z]

How does that 396 fit with the small block heater core? Or has that been switched to a big block type? When I've seen these in the past, small block heater core looks like it has been banged on to clear the big block?

[hotrod68]

It's tight, jd, but it'll go.  In the '70s I helped a friend swap a 396 into a '69 where a 307 was and it all bolted right in with no cutting or hammering. That was one tire-smoking rascal....

[nuch_ss396]

Keep the car what it is - A Z/28 !    Low optioned Z/28's are still Z/28's.

The other post about a cloned Yenko or COPO is correct.  You need 5-leaf rear springs, special BB cross member, BB front springs, BB heater box cover, complete
BB radiator assembly, BB Z-bar assembly, BB 2-1/2" exhaust system, the complete engine with correct bracketry, etc., BB wiring harness, on and on and on......

There are way too many cloned Supercars these days for my taste.  Keep your eyes open for the correct DZ block.  One will show up one day, hopefully in a price
range that suits you.  You can always restore it with another small block and go for the correct engine accessory items found on the Z/28.  Then, as time & money
permit, look for the DZ block, build the long block and then transplant it into your restored Z/28.

The 396 is probably worth the cost of a DZ block and some internals of you're lucky.

Steve

[gflac]

Optimistically  I'd say it's worth $1K (minus the 396 of course).  Sell it to me.

[Flowjoe]

Keep the car what it is - A Z/28 !    Low optioned Z/28's are still Z/28's.

The other post about a cloned Yenko or COPO is correct.  You need 5-leaf rear springs, special BB cross member, BB front springs, BB heater box cover, complete
BB radiator assembly, BB Z-bar assembly, BB 2-1/2" exhaust system, the complete engine with correct bracketry, etc., BB wiring harness, on and on and on......

There are way too many cloned Supercars these days for my taste.  Keep your eyes open for the correct DZ block.  One will show up one day, hopefully in a price
range that suits you.  You can always restore it with another small block and go for the correct engine accessory items found on the Z/28.  Then, as time & money
permit, look for the DZ block, build the long block and then transplant it into your restored Z/28.

The 396 is probably worth the cost of a DZ block and some internals of you're lucky.

Steve

I've never heard of a special BB cross member.    What is this piece?  And to go with your BB heater box cover you'd need a BB heater core:-)...I may be mistaken but  I think the only diference between BB and SB radiators is the number of rows.

Of course none of this answers the question...what's it worth.  Check Ebay..there is a '69 pile that has bid up to $9K already. 

It looks as if Gflac is not intimated by the project.

[lakeholme]

http://www.camaros.org/engine.shtml#EngineMounting

[Flowjoe]

http://www.camaros.org/engine.shtml#EngineMounting

Thanks for the referenced article.  i was already aware of the difference in engine mounts (towers).  What was referenced above in this thread was a SPECIAL BB CROSSMEMBER.  To my knowledge there are only three crossmembers on a 1st gen Camaro...two at the front of the subframe (more or less under the motor) that are permanently welded into place  and are the same for every car including L6 and BB.  the third is the crossmember that bolts into place and upon which the transmission mounts.  The only variation for this component, of which I am aware, is the TH400 crossmember...but that is transmission dependant regardless of engnine type.  so, I was really intrigued by the reference to a special BB crossmember  (the existence of which I was previously unaware).  can anyone enlighten me?

[KurtS]

A BB x-member for manual trans has a different offet for the trans mount and a different shaped hole (square with a corner knocked off).

[Flowjoe]

A BB x-member for manual trans has a different offet for the trans mount and a different shaped hole (square with a corner knocked off).

Thanks Kurt, So how great is the offset?  does that mean that a STD crossmember for manual will not work with a BB?  Or just not work perfectly?  Or will just not be technically correct?  A friend recently pondered converting his '68 from SBC to BBC and asked me what it would take to convert.  I tried to give him as complete a list as possible  but not being aware of the crossmember difference I ommitted that aspect.  Now I wonderr if I should bring it to his attention.

[hotrod68]

Flow, I know that on a '69 almost everything will work as is--even the small-block frame mounts for the engine. As I said in my post, I've swapped a 396 for a 307 and it was a virtual bolt-in. Correct? No way, but it worked for a hot rod. The heater core clearance was VERY tight, as was the carburetor-to-hood clearance. We used headers instead of manifolds and that simplified things a bit. We even used the 307 10-1/2" flywheel, bellhousing and clutch stuff. The car already had a Muncie and a 4:11 12-bolt out of a Z/28 in it. Seems like we had to change the starter nose for the BB and it did need a bigger radiator. Of course, back then you could get any small parts cheap at the junkyard! It was incredibly crude by correct standards, but the car was already a bastard of mixed parts and the 396 was functional and ran like a bat out of hell. Some of us do some dumb things in our 20s! Hope this helps and good luck!

[cjm465]

Hey guys, Thanks for all the opinions on what to do with it. I am currently looking for a DZ 302 engine or if that is too cost prohibitive then I will make another small block to closely resemble one. I was looking for the easy way out when I was thinking about a Yenko clone.

 As far as you discussions go about crossmembers or heater cores etc... all the parts with the exception of the front springs and motor mounts are what the car came with. The only thing lacking is the motor. I just see all these other Z's with thier motors and get frustrated about mine. I have a couple people interested in the JK block who are looking to do the same as me but with thier Chevelles'.

 I guess I do have to remind myself from time to time that I do have an original 69 Z/28 with or without the motor of the 20,000 or so sold back then in 69, not one of the 40,000 69 Z's that are for sale now.

[Ron C.]

I allways wanted to find a real Z without a motor so I could put a 502 in it and put those emblems in place of the 302 emblems