Author Topic: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic  (Read 576 times)

Dave69x33

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1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« on: January 05, 2025, 09:53:43 PM »
I would like to revisit this topic that Bryan302 originally posted in his question back in 2015, and get updated info from from the CRG community. 

I need to replace the standard cross-flow muffler system that has been on my car since I restored in back between 1995 - 2000.  I plan to purchase a Gardner System but need to confirm if I should use the standard muffler system w/o resonators, or the standard muffler system with resonators. Gardner offers two different muffler depending if you to with or without resonators. From what I understand the non-resonator system is called the Deep Tone Exhaust kit.  The question is should I order aluminized or chrome tail pipes? My gut tells me I should go with resonators and aluminized tail pipes based on the following info.

Back in 2015 William originally responded with this recommendation: '69 Camaros with VINs starting with N627600/L529000 included the resonator system; VINs starting with N646229/L530160 received chrome tail pipes. He went on to state chromed tailpipes became standard on May 19, 1969, and the N10 duel exhaust system option increased $15.80 on the SS and Z/28.

The original discuss thread talks about very early build ZL1's shown in magazine articles with resonators.  I have resent photos I took during the 2023 Camaro Nationals of Doug Perry's amazing low millage black X66 SS396 Norwood 02D build N604699 survivor showing its original resonator system.

The original post from 2015 offered a lot of useful info including a copy of the letter from GM dated August 22, 1969 issue to Camaro Owners with Z28, L-34 (SS w/350 HP), and L-78 (375 HP) that included the early design chambered exhaust systems on Camaros produced prior to November 1968, and Z28's produced between 12/4/1968 and 5/2/1969 with the interim cross-flow standard muffler exhaust system w/o resonators, warning of potential issuance of noise warnings or citations in the state of California.  It amusing that the letter states: "It has been determined that these exhaust systems may exceed the State of California noise level during instances of maximum acceleration in lower gear ratios."  I thought who would ever do that...well me just about every time I drive my '69 302 Z28...LOL!

2nd Question:This there any new or updated VIN info or photo documentation when the 3rd exhaust system design with resonators were used on Norwood on 1969 Z28s?  The GM letter indicates Z28's built after 5/2/1969 will have the resonator system but this was a target date and subject to production stock availability. I have photo documentation of a Norwood 09D build Z28 survivor with resonators.  Jerry MacNeish's '69 Camaro fact book states the resonator system was used between April 15 to end of production for the 1969 Camaro model year in November 1969.  So there is some conflicts on the exact dates when resonators were launched on Z28s, and there a few documented '69 Z28 examples from this period without resonators...perhaps due to the availability of production stock of resonators during that period.

3rd Question: Are there any 05A Norwood build Z28 that have been thru legends judging and how did your Camaro exhaust system score and which system is on your car? 

My '69 Z28 is an 05A build (trim plate) Norwood car VIN is N638712. Per my NCRS Shipping Data Report, the production date is 5/5/1969 which falls in the 2nd week of May between 5/4 - 5/10/1969. The 3rd week runs between 5/11 - 5/17/1969 and 4th week between 5/18 - 5/24/1969, thus the chrome tail pipes became standard during the 4th week on Monday 19, 1969  My VIN falls between the dates William noted above which is why I assume I should use resonators and aluminumized tail pipes to be technically correct for judging purposes.

I contacted Jerry M to ask about this and he said either the non-resonator interim system or the resonator system would be acceptable, but I would like to get more clarification for those of us with 05A build '69 Z28.

Thanks,
Dave 


william

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2025, 06:35:56 PM »
Excellent, well-researched question Dave!

Don’t lump Z/28s with BBs. Different sound, different parts.

The August 22, 1969 recall letter sent to owners is succinct. The Z/28 muffler/resonator system entered production as of May 2, 1969. The statement “…but this was a target date and subject to production stock availability” does not appear on either recall notice. The second recall states "This exhaust system will be effective in production approximately April 15, 1969." May 2nd was a Friday; your car was built several days later. N638712 was most likely built with the muffler/resonator system with aluminized tailpipes. Trust your gut!

Exhaust system configuration is listed on the Chassis Broadcast Copy [CBC], box #198. Z/28s built January 15 - April 25 have an FM code system [L48 also]. I only have two later data points; May 20 and July 2. Both have FQ code systems. The best way to nail down the date would be to find CBCs for Z/28s in the April 25 – May 20-time frame. As we know, CBCs are rarely found, even in Van Nuys cars.

There was no optional 1969 “deep-tone” exhaust system. It was a ’67 [N61] and ’68 [NF2] option. It did not have resonators and used a different muffler [#3910566] than the resonator system. Both Z/28 recall systems listed the deep-tone muffler. The second Z/28 recall lists service replacement front exhaust pipes [#3909958 & #3934871] and #3909959 resonators.

I’m convinced excessive noise under hard acceleration was the reason Chevrolet dropped 4.10 gears as a Z/28 option as of June 1969. Norwood would be shipping Camaros to CA as of August and even the resonator system apparently was still too loud for CA.

Exhaust systems are a gray area in judging. No replacement conventional exhaust system, not even NOS GM, duplicates what was used in production. In production, resonators were welded to the front exhaust pipes; the RH tail pipe was welded to the muffler. No clamps were used in those locations.

I am at an impasse with BB exhaust systems. The recall [L34 & L78] NC8 replacement parts show non-resonator front exhaust pipes #3923573 and #3912596. Vintage photos of ZL-1 #3 [built March 4th] show it was built with a production muffler/resonator system. Doug Perry’s L78 SS was built February 25th, same system. Both cars had M22s and 4.10 gears. A previous owner of ZL-1 #6 [automatic] stated it had resonators.  A 12k mile survivor L78 SS built April 30th with M22 and 3.73 gears retains its original non-resonator system. There is a restored COPO built March 25 that is said to have had its original non-resonator system prior to restoration. The photos were not conclusive; resonators quickly rusted out and could have been replaced with aftermarket replacement sections. Chevrolet did not use those in production and never offered them as service parts.

The AIM is not very useful. It shows all BBs receiving a resonator system as of June. There is an original L35 car built August ’69 with a non-resonator system. The are three known CBC codes for BBs. FR was seen on an L35, probably non-resonator. FT on an L78, probably chambered. FS is most common, seen on L72, L78, ZL-1s. Even an L35 had it. Probably the resonator system.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 01:36:10 AM by william »
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KurtS

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2025, 03:17:56 AM »
The best way to nail down the date would be to find CBCs for Z/28s in the April 25 – May 20-time frame. As we know, CBCs are rarely found, even in Van Nuys cars.

There are three known CBC codes for BBs. FR was seen on an L35, probably non-resonator. FT on an L78, probably chambered. FS is most common, seen on L72, L78, ZL-1s. Even an L35 had it. Probably the resonator system.
I have several LOS CBCs for May Z28's - problem is this is right when the 2-month LOS strike started so that data is inconclusive. The first LOS car with FQ was finished at the end of June, it was probably started in April.

Big blocks:
FR - early 10A L35
FS - 12A and later L35's
FT - early L78's (chambered)
FS - L78 after 12C and all COPO's
Kurt S
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Dave69x33

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2025, 05:29:24 PM »
Thank you William and Kurt!

I always appreciate and value your input!  I'll let Eric Gardner know that I need the muffler/resonator system with aluminized tail pipes.  After I spoke with Eric about this last week to get his thoughts, he thought either the resonator or non-resonator system would be appropriate for my 05A build Camaro Z28 but to confirm with Jerry M and/or the folks on CRG.

I should have clarified when I stated "deep tone" muffler which is a muffler option on Gardner systems, if one selects the 1969 Camaro interim exhaust system with crossflow muffler without resonators.  I am not sure if the GM parts books referred to the non-resonator muffler as "deep tone?"

Glad my '69Z was assembled in May 1969...I have the original "BV" April date coded rear axle and April date coded 4:10 gears in my car!  I did not realize the 4:10 gear ratio was dropped as an option in June 1969.  I like the 4:10 when driving around the city but it does tend to “help me” limit my speed on the highway...LOL!

Dave69x33

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2025, 05:55:11 PM »
Since we are on the topic of the application and use of resonators in 1969 Camaros, I wanted to share a few photos of Doug Perry's amazing, well preserved, 02D Norwood build X66 SS 396 Camaro survivor with its original resonator exhaust system!  These pics were taken during the 2023 Camaro Nationals Legends Judging.

william

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2025, 01:19:30 PM »
When 'bright tail pipes' entered production May 19th, only the RH side was 2-pc construction. Warren Malkin found a survivor built with them October '69.
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x66 714

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2025, 01:50:19 PM »
My originals are just like that, 8/28/1969 396 L35 w/o resonators....Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

Dave69x33

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2025, 05:13:56 PM »
Great pics of original exhaust system components William and X66 714! 

I am very grateful we at gaining some more knowledge with visual references to what exhaust system combinations came on our 1969 Camaros and particularly in May 1969 during the transition from the interim exhaust w/o resonators, the resonator system with non-chrome tail pipes, and the resonator system with chrome tail pipes.  I believe are starting to see some trends with BB and SS 396 Camaros vs. the SB and Z28 Camaros but more data points and examples are needed.

X66 714, it's interesting your late August 1969 396 came w/o resonators whereas Doug Perry's early 02D Norwood build 396 came with resonators and non-chrome tail pipes, which stands to reason given the chrome tail pipes entered production on 5/19/1969.

Folks, if you happen to come across unrestored survivor 1969 Camaros SS BB or SB car, or Z28s that retain their original exhaust system components, please get and post pictures.  Include info from the body trim plate build date and plant, and the Camaro VIN.  This is a tough ask as the exhaust system were probably among the first components that rusted and/or changed to headers exhaust systems.

Thanks,
Dave


Dave69x33

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2025, 05:18:00 PM »
BTW...

Is there any data indicating Norwood build Camaros with 05B trim plates? 

Based on my database research so far, I have not seen any 05B trim plates.   On the topic concerning fuel tank date codes, there are no recorded 1969 05B data points so far.

x66 714

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Re: 1969 Z28 Exhaust & Beginning of Resonators - Revisit Topic
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2025, 05:30:11 PM »
X66 714, it's interesting your late August 1969 396 came w/o resonators whereas Doug Perry's early 02D Norwood build 396 came with resonators and non-chrome tail pipes, which stands to reason given the chrome tail pipes entered production on 5/19/1969.

William & I were talking about this on the phone the other day. Gear ratio may be the reason behind resonator & not. My car has 3.07 gears. Doug Perry's car has 4.10 gears. The 12k 375hp silver car has 3.73 & no resonators....It's all thoughts. A car with taller gears is going to rev higher therefore causing more decibles....Joe
See America's First, Chevrolet

1968 Z/28 Corvette Bronze. Black Hounds Tooth. 02E Los Angeles born 3/13/1968 pnt OO. Purchased March 1976
1969 SS396 Yellow/Yellow 08E Norwood born 8/28/1969 pnt 76E. Purchased April 1981

 

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