photos of my 69 build,

[ko-lek-tor]

We don't have salt trucks...      and on those *rare, once in 4-5 yr* days when we have ice on overpasses, etc..  they use sand (which is not 'good', but much better than salt)...

You ever seen a car parked near the beach for a period of time? That salt water mist is devastating! So not all Southern cars are well preserved time capsules. A few cars that come to mind, remind me of KERR's.

[69Z28-RS]

Yes, I have...  and when you get down to Florida, and/or anywhere around a beachfront area, you can see those things (sand has a certain amount of salt in it typically)..   

related note:  A friend of mine (from my USAF days '68-72) had his '66 Hurst Shelby stolen from a NY/Queens street (in front of his house) right before he joined the USAF.   We'd been in the USAF a couple of years, when he got a call from his insurance company; they had *found* his car.. or at least the 'hull'..  the car had been 'stripped' of every removable part, and the raw body dumped on the seashore somewhere in NY/NJ.. and in only a couple of years, it was rusted to 'worthless'.... 

[Stingr69]

In all honesty - My advise is to look around for a better core.  This one will cost too much and take too long to do it right.  It is worth more as a parts car in my opinion.  Sorry.

-Mark.

[68camaroz28]

Just one thing to comment on as I have a son and 5 grandsons and agree working on a car with one is special but I can also talk from experience that the task should not be overwhelming or it can have a negative impact. As we all know younger people have a more limited attention span and after awhile it can be not so much fun. Smaller projects with quicker rewards work much better.
I applaud the effort both individually or as a father and young son but please evaluate carefully before plowing into a course of action. Again, all the luck to you!

[KERR]

Sorry for the late reply.  this post has blown up,   i posted all those last week then get the flu,   


Yes i got the car from a dealer,  i dont think they knew the car had the problems,  and the way it was all hidden there was no way to to know.  besdides the roof,  i guess the car has been fixed correctley over time,  the body work was straight as can be, and gaps where good, also all the pannels sounded the same,     I guess the only way i might have been able to find out about the roof is if i took the head linner down,  but im not what you can see with the it down.. ive never had one out in a camaro.   

What i find interesting is they fiberglassed the roof, on the top,  then did nothing on the sides,  just left those holes about the size of your thumb...   or maybe they came in after they painted the part and fixed the roof?   I do know we went over the car as pretty good,  i figued a roof sikn from the start because i dont like the vinyl top,  and if i had left the rest alone it would have probably been ok,  but if im going to do the roof might as well do everything else..


I guess for now ill sand down those two doors and see if anything is under them.   If not then i know i need both front fenderes,  both 1/4 pannels,  trunk lid,  roof and god knows what under the roof skin...   

Then take the car to our lake house one night and just leave it,   ive got a 2 car garage down there thats to small for the sububrans to fit in so it just empty... it has heat and air and a security system so i think ill just take it down there and leve it until i buy all the parts.. 

The last custom car i did,  we did all the body work and paint first which sucked,   so ill probably just order everything,  then get some money saved up to have it all installed,  then just ride it in primer until motor and everything is done..    Its a total pain in the ars working on a finished car,   it seems like the harder you try for something not to happen the more stuff happens...   


I am a dealer and he was a delaer but ive never had a issue like this.  In the past ive had to have cars bought back that mileage issues,  or  frame damage,  but not over rust.   So i ask a friend who deals in the old cars all the time and he said its yes and no,   Yes i can try to fight and no its probably not work it unless they other dealer just got scared and bought it back.   but chances of that are slim to non.  So im going lawers fee's etc and on the old car stuff its not a open and shut case..    Exaple if you bought real copo car, with everything correct, numbers, papers etc,  and then get it and the motor is out of say a 71 dump turck, then yes you have something to work with,    but with the rust bening covered up,   his lawers will play the card of he didnt know,  bla bla bla...     

I think if i try to go that way,  i just need to call the dealer and see who he got it from,  he only had the car a month by they way title work show's.    play the card of both of us are interested in talking to him... 

[ko-lek-tor]

Laws generally favor the buyer, but remember most sales are "as-is" a legal defense in letting seller off the hook. You could go back to the dealer (in a very civil manner, mind you) and show your evidence and plead your case and see if "seller" is willing to do something about the purchase. If not, best to move on (IMO) and take what funds and energy you might put towards litigation and put that towards your car. As a member, here I believe, put it, "consider it tuition payment for schooling (of hard knocks)".

[KERR]

yea thats what im thinking,   Im not killed in the car,   i went buying a "rust free" car and paid more that i feel like i should have at this point considering what i have to fix,  but if was say $5K less i would felt better..  Ive looked for years and its either a good car $30k ish,  to start with,  or it needs everything for $10-15K.   

The cars ive seen that are already done are like $60K sooo, in the long run i should have about that amount in this one but have what i want,   but with that said big motors arnt cheap so i cant really compair prices..

I bought a running driving pretty good looking car,  it just hid its flaws well...   Sorta like the really hot woman from the bar or club,  they never look the same in normal lighting lol...    It is what it is i guess.     I looked on AMD and it looks like i need about $3K worth of parts so its as bad as i thought..  I just dont know what labor will cost to put it together. 

Ive been down the road before,  once you start you dont stop.  Back in 1990 same deal on 67 vette..  Frame off restoration,  everything new,  then crashed the car like a pro in 94,   suied erie ins car set for years,  when we  fixed it i fixed as a driver in 96-97,  fast forward to now and its showing its age..   I havent done anything to it, becuase if you fix one thing then the rest has to be done.  That and i kinda like the look of the abused car,  stress cracks, bubber melted on the paint,  paint faided in spots and then some a hole keyed it...    its like the 67 vette that no one cares about...  turns quite a few heads...   heck i havent washed it in 3 years,  i just get it and ride with all the dust and dirt on it,  lol,  the exhaust has turned the red lines black on the back as well as the wheels...  look like im rolling slicks on steelie in the back,   but its fun.. 

[cook_dw]

If you want to replace the top on your car; I have a top that was cut off of a 67 back several years ago that is in really good shape.  Might be worth the effort instead of cutting and welding in pieces of metal.  PM if you are interested.  I live 20 miles east of Nashville and will be at the Fairgrounds this weekend at the Stones River Swap Meet.  Also let me know what other parts you may need cause I might have them.  Good luck on the build.   

[sdkar]

That car is a mess.  From the few photos posted, I can only imagine how bad it really is.  I am betting the rear frame rails are just about gone, and I would be surprised if one good speed bump wouldn't put them though the floor.  This car could get you killed on the road.  I would even be willing to bet that a rebody from dynacorn would be cheaper than the repairs needed.

If the car was advertised or you were it was rust free, and the seller held himself out as a car specialist, then you certainly have legal recourse over and above that of a regular private seller.  If you want to stay away from lawyers and retainer fees, I would call the guy, and let him know that he was reckless with the truth, and that you relied on his statement or advertising of a "rust-free" vehicle.  That this statement is way in excess of simply puffing up the sale of the car, and is fraud.  State to the dealer that you feel that a $5K refund would be fair, and if refuses, that you will sue him. 

A small claims lawsuit if pretty easy to handle for the average joe, and you would likely win as long as you have a good expert witness.  It would be in the interest of the dealer to settle with you, as even though you can represent yourself as a pro-se litigant, the dealer MUST hire an attorney, as a business can not represent itself in a legal court trial.  By you filing a $300 small claim suit, he would have to hire an attorney, which would more than likely want a minimum of a $5k to $10k retainer. 

I suggest you call and try to settle for a reasonable refund.  If he says no, then file the suit, and I bet that upon hiim recieiving it, and realizing attorneys are expensive, and that paying you $5k to go away, is cheaper for him.  Just my opinion.  It couldn't hurt to try.  With a situation where this is a car dealer holding himself out as a professional, you have a lot more legal protections, and he has a certain level of requirements when giving facts about a car he is selling, and what is relied upon by you when he makes certain statements.


 

[X66]

KERR you say you don't plan on selling your 69 Camaro. I feel the same way about mine and mine needs more work than yours. It can be done. The plus is you and your son get to spend quality garage time together. The end result is gonna be a cool Camaro. How cool is that. I know I look forward to spending time in my garage and it doesn't happen as often as I would like. Wrenching on my Camaro is therapy for me. It's relaxation and stress relief Camaro style. I was gonna suggest picking up a second hot rod to cruise in but it looks like you got that covered. The 67 big block Corvette is my favorite. One of these days I'll have one. Yours sounds cool. Cruising around without worrying about scratching anything up. Don't get me wrong I would love to own a shiny 67 Vette but I wouldn't baby it. It would get driven

[KERR]

yea,  the vette is a beater...  its in good shape,  i just dont see spending the money to make is " beautiful"   the maroon has faded a LOT over the years,  and its got stress cracks all over it..    to do it correctly i guess it needs to be blasted down the gel coat,  then patched or re-gelled or something then repaint..     Right now it sorta has the dont give a **** look lol..

[69 Zee]

Wow, just read thru your thread.  That's a bummer on your Camaro.  I wonder if the dealer knew or if did they took it on a trade and flipped without knowing a little something.

As far as a "Small Claim" in court.  Yeah you'll probably win but that's about it... in Florida anyway (maybe your state is diff but I'd doubt it, all states pretty much the same).

If you win a small claims case, You may be surprised to learn you don't automatically receive the money when you win a judgment. If the defendant doesn't voluntarily pay, you'll have to use additional legal procedures to collect. Unfortunately, it is easy to get so caught up in thinking about suing the person who did you wrong that you forget to think about how you'll collect. This mistake can compound your original loss by wasting your valuable time for the dubious satisfaction of hearing the judge say, "You win." 

If your lucky.. and I stress "REAL LUCKY"  collecting from a solvent (company able to satisfy its debt obligations when due) individual or businesses isn't usually a problem.  Why I say if your "REAL LUCKY".  Cause most business operate on a "Starved of cash" base.  They're able to hide things like $$ thru other methods of the business.

So when you win..which most likely you would a lien is filed against the dealer.  And if there are other liens then yours follows suit in order behind the others.  You then would only be paid if the business decides to close and liquidates all assets and they began paying off all loans and liens held against them.  If the cash from their liquidation is all absorbed before your turn to collect... well tuff     

Bankruptcy...No good also.   If a person or a business declares a straight bankruptcy and lists you as a creditor, your right to recover a small claims court judgment outside the bankruptcy is cut off, along with most other debts.  Your loss again 

Not trying to rain on your day,  but I don't want to see someone blow more money to only win and never recover.   Telling you from experience.  I had work done by a business to an old house about 20 yrs ago.  Though my lawsuit was for only $1500 + $100 court cost ($1600 total) .. peanuts to you I'm sure.  I won, the Company never even sent someone to represent them against me.  I was all smiles, skipping all the way down the hall to sign the papers.  Then I ask "so where do I collect" ?  BOOM the learning curve !

So in a nut shell .... Save your hard earned cash and play with your Camaro.  A great project that you and your son can enjoy and always remember... that's priceless !

[KERR]

Yea,   they don't want to help,   But two can play dirty pool, and i have more to hustle with...  ill not go into detail but its been epic so far and its just getting started. 


Ive got the car down as far as i think i can go in the garage..   Time to start ordering parts.

[BULLITT65]

Any updates on this Kerr?

[BULLITT65]

Hope the build is going well Kerr...