Cross member

[hrlyfxdl]

I'm looking for a picture, or description, of how the cross member should be positioned in my car. It's a 68, original 4 speed muncie, currently has a 350 and I believe originally a SB car. I took out the trans to have it rebuilt, and I didn't take notice of how the cross member was positioned. As I have put it back together, the shifter (a hurst) seems to sit too far to the passenger side and I think will hit my console. Wondering it I have the cross member in incorrectly. Stupid me, didn't take pics when I removed it. Currently it sits with the wide oval bolt slots on the passenger side that mount to the sub frame. Thanks for any help.

[1968 Z28]

Original crossmembers have one small hole drilled on the front edge of the crossmember and two small holes drilled on the back edge of the crossmember.  These small holes are used to mount the original Muncie shifter mounting bracket to the crossmember.....thus they will be on the drivers side of the crossmember.

As to the problem with the shifter hitting the passenger side of the console, I had the same problem with the Hurst on my car and if you will use the search feature on this forum you will discover that there are others that have or had the same problem.

[bertfam]

Pictures always help

Ed

[dutch]

I assume that a cross member would fit well either way otherwise this discussion wouldn't be here - but are there any problems associated with one being put in backwards?
Does any drivetrain misalignment occur because of a situation like that and aside of a Muncie shifter not reattaching in an original situation because the holes weren't there - if a cross member was swapped around, would say a car with a Hurst shifter encounter any issues from a backward installation?
I've had mine in an out quite a few times in the past and never noted a problem possibly because it doesn't have a Muncie anymore - but had me musing if mine could in fact be reversed - not that I've ever experienced any problems.. or maybe I was just lucky in reinstalling it right, by luck!
Just curious..   Thanks - Randy

[X33RS]

Dutch,
  My 69Z was parked with 100k miles on it.  So I'm sure during that time it at least had one clutch swap done, and yes the cross member was backwards and had been that way for who knows how long.  Even though it was parked for 30 years it still ran and drove fine with no ill affects at all, no vibrations of any kind.   When I put it back on the road this year I tore the drivetrain apart, flipped the cross member around in the process only to make it correct, even though I don't need the Muncie shifter holes for anything.

[69Z28-RS]

I first pulled mine out in 1976 when I rebuilt the engine... again in the late 80's when I pulled the original engine out (and installed a '70 LT1 engine which was never started in the car).. and again 3-4 yrs ago when I pulled the front end apart for cleaning..  I'm sure over that time I installed in 'wrong' at least once..    but the last time I installed it, I was aware of those little holes so I put it in 'correctly'...

Question:  Are the trans crossmembers always difficult (tight) to install?   Mine surely doesn't just 'slide in between the floor pan and top of the subframe...  makes me think something is 'wrong' every time I do it.   Any suggestions? 

[bertfam]

I assume that a cross member would fit well either way otherwise this discussion wouldn't be here - but are there any problems associated with one being put in backwards?

On a small block no. On a big block yes. As shown in the picture below (small block on top, big block on the bottom), the transmission mounting holes are offset on the big block and if you installed it wrong, they wouldn't line up with the transmission mount.

Are the trans crossmembers always difficult (tight) to install?   Mine surely doesn't just 'slide in between the floor pan and top of the subframe...  makes me think something is 'wrong' every time I do it.   Any suggestions?

Yes, sometimes it can be VERY difficult to install. It's a very tight fit in there. Suggestions? Use a bigger hammer!

Ed

[ko-lek-tor]

Question:  Are the trans crossmembers always difficult (tight) to install?   Mine surely doesn't just 'slide in between the floor pan and top of the subframe...  makes me think something is 'wrong' every time I do it.   Any suggestions? 

suggestion: Yeah Gary, don't take it out anymore. That is my suggestion! As a mechanic, I would often wonder what engineers were( NOT) thinking when they designed stuff. Some things are just a pain. The drive train was installed on the assembly line in the sub frame then lifted into place and bolted to the underside body, I know most here are aware including you, Gary. Pretty sure not a lot of thought was given to servicing the car later on, IE clutch swap. I have been wrenching on 69 Camaros since I was 18 and sure had more gumption then as I would lie in the gravel drive with old cylinder heads for jack stands and bench press muncies and TH350s and install by myself with little in the way of tools. I always had to take a hammer hitting the x member on one side toward the rear and the other side toward the front going back and forth till it came out. I know of no other way other than taking the sub frame loose and I ain't going there. Before I got soft blow and lead mallets, I used a crude claw hammer. BB X member has a few "battle scar" Pee-ode, wailed on, flat spots and nicks 'cause as an 18 year old, what didn't move just got hit harder! Glad some age has taught some skill and finesses working on these old gals. Being a M-B Tech also taught patience. Now you want to talk about tight difficult hard to work on cars? Those Germans are Psychotic, lol.

[Sauron327]

All you have to do is loosen the subframe bolts to aid crossmember removal. That way the crossmember does not have to be beaten to death.

[dutch]

Thanks guys - I assumed (you know how that works sometimes eh?) that the shouldn't be any difference in the small block version and I knew about the BB offset, but thought I would ask in case something could be amiss.. I'll have to check when Spring comes, if ever.. Just to see how lucky I was in getting it in the last time correctly!  AND yea, it was a bitch to get in and out and I'm happy to hear the normal take out and installation procedure was the same as what I finally end up doing - wailing it with.. a Big Hammer!

Randy

 

[L78racer]

IIRC the crossmember 'pad' where the trans mount sits is on an angle relative to the frame. it mimics the angle of the engine/trans ~5* nose up orientation. the upper steel skin has this area angle and cannot be seen unless you look at the crossmember out of the car. with the shift mounting holes on the driver side you have the correct angle for the trans mount.

one way to move the shifter to the left is to use a hurst spacer from another application but available separately. you will need longer mounting bolts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HURST-4-Speed-Shifter-Spacer-Plate-Comp-Plus-New-Process-Muncie-Camaro-1954319-/301565006727?hash=item4636acd387:g:EoEAAOSwll1WufiQ&vxp=mtr