Original stamp or not?

[KurtS]

I have other versions of these stamps. I don't see issues.

[rspallina]

Thanks Kurt.  Still considering this car and would like to hear from others regarding the authenticity and totality of the documentation posted on this thread and whether the driveline items look authentic as well.  Thanks in advance

[rspallina]

Technical question related to this thread.  What is the relationship between body number and VIN number?  Based on MacNeish's book and the window stickers contained therein, the body number on the TT posted above for this car is way out of sequence with the VIN number.  The window stickers in Jerry's book go in production order and a car with this VIN should have a body number in the 200000 plus range not 159270.  Please let me know your thoughts.

[william]

There is NO direct relationship between VIN and body numbers.

The best examples are the Gibb ZL1 Camaros. All 50 were ordered on or about December 6, 1968. The orders were assigned confirmations #222001-222049; 1 order was messed up and later re-issued. The first Gibb ZL1 was N569358 / NOR222002 built December 30, 1968. N609238 / NOR222001 is the 14th ZL1, built March 5, 1969. Gibb needed the #1 car quickly and his contacts at Chevrolet moved it up the schedule.

The first ZL1 Camaro ordered [different dealer] was N608193 / NOR211785. Despite being ordered almost two weeks prior to Gibbs cars it was built much later. Why? The body number had nothing to do with production scheduling. Chevrolet scheduled production based on a number of factors: equipment availability, dealer location, paint color. How much clout the dealer had also came into play.

There is nothing unusual about cars built within minutes of each other having body numbers thousands apart.

[rspallina]

Thank you William for your response.  The reason I raised the issue is that in Jerry's book although there is no direct correlation between the two (pages 109 and 110 being the best example, VINs 215 numbers apart and body numbers only 1 digit apart), there appears to be a sequential correlation in that as VIN numbers increased body numbers did as well (see pages 100-119).  I would imagine there are anomalies such as the one you have pointed out for special order cars (and a couple in his book), but based on the window stickers in his book (specifically pages 103 and 104), the body number (159270) for the car I am referencing in this thread has a VIN number (560077) that does not fall between the VINs on these two pages where the body numbers are on either side of the one in this sentence.  My suspicion is that body numbers and VIN numbers increased but not directly.  Do you see the correlation I am trying to make?

[william]

The shipper copies mentioned came from the same dealer, Martz Chevrolet. I have copies of all the paperwork for the 99 cars Martz ordered and even they were not built in body number order. Here's a sample for the VIN range N554xxx-N559xxx: 183170 187782 183171 187781 141394 195834 202838 195835. The Z/28s you mentioned were ordered together with a standard Camaro NOR 307026. It was built 8 days prior to the Z/28s.

So in general, yes body numbers do increase over time. But as stated cars built the same day can have body numbers miles apart. There really isn't a direct correlation even at the same dealer.

[rspallina]

There is NO direct relationship between VIN and body numbers.

The best examples are the Gibb ZL1 Camaros. All 50 were ordered on or about December 6, 1968. The orders were assigned confirmations #222001-222049; 1 order was messed up and later re-issued. The first Gibb ZL1 was N569358 / NOR222002 built December 30, 1968. N609238 / NOR222001 is the 14th ZL1, built March 5, 1969. Gibb needed the #1 car quickly and his contacts at Chevrolet moved it up the schedule.

The first ZL1 Camaro ordered [different dealer] was N608193 / NOR211785. Despite being ordered almost two weeks prior to Gibbs cars it was built much later. Why? The body number had nothing to do with production scheduling. Chevrolet scheduled production based on a number of factors: equipment availability, dealer location, paint color. How much clout the dealer had also came into play.

There is nothing unusual about cars built within minutes of each other having body numbers thousands apart.

William I just realized what you meant by order confirmation.  That would make sense and would account for why some cars body numbers are not in sync with most of the cars produced during the same time frame. This car does have a host of special options that may have held up its production.  Thanks

[X33RS]

Isn't this car too early for the cowl hood??

[william]

It is not on the w/s.

[X33RS]

It's not on the w/s??  Not sure what that stands for (first thing that comes to mind is windshield, lol)  but if you are referring to paper work, none of those pictures are large enough for me to read any of it.  That's why I asked.
  So I guess your answer means it's too early in production to have the hood?

[rspallina]

The cowl hood was added. It is not on the window sticker.

[X33RS]

Ah 10-4.  I was curious as I didn't see Jerry mention it on his review of the car.  Mine is a 12D build and I was told it was right on the verge of the ducted hood introduction, what ever that might be.
Just trying to understand more.

Thanks

[69Z28-RS]

Another thing which affects scheduling which wasn't mentioned here in this thread, is that 'sold cars' (ie. customer ordered) got priority on scheduling (when parts are available) over 'standard internal production orders'.

[william]

Another thing which affects scheduling which wasn't mentioned here in this thread, is that 'sold cars' (ie. customer ordered) got priority on scheduling (when parts are available) over 'standard internal production orders'.

Appears to be correct. In this string of confirmation #s [by VIN] 231653 241249 226652 241250 243528 the one in the middle was a customer car but it was a Z/28. Engine availability was likely the primary factor; then production slot due to the time required for striping. 'Fleet' was another scheduling consideration.

At Norwood the earliest known ZL2 car is ZL1 #1 N569358 built Dec 30. The ZL1 engine and BE axle were in stock prior so component availability for the hood may have held up the build.