69 Z28 Question

[vinniegini]

Hello All,

Similar to the previous thread regarding the 69 Z/28. I have several friends who are muscle car owners but none can really give me a definitive answer on how to identify a fake vs. real thing.

Been seriously considering making an offer on one for sale in my town but don't want to make a mistake and overpay for a fake.  According to the owner the car I'm looking at is an original Z28 except for the motor, which is a big block instead of the 302.  Unfortunately he doesn’t have any documentation to prove it authenticity.

My question is can I determine from the VIN # whether this particular car was the Z28 package from the factory.  I read through all of the literature on the decoding section on this site but there is so much going on there I cant make heads or tails of it.

Can anyone give me a simple answer on this topic or lead me to a website/books etc to help me make an educated decision.

Thanks.

[firstgenaddict]

Do a search for fake, clone, and z28.
That should about cover it... you will find all the numbers and what to look for there.

If you do have the numbers from the cowl tag, vin number, trans number, & the rear axle numbers please post them and we will begin disecting it.

[william]

There is nothing in the VIN that will identify the car as a Z/28.

Depending on where/when it was built there could be corroborating information on the body tag, which is mounted on the firewall behind the power brake booster. Everybody knows that so there is plenty of skullduggery going on with the tags. There is certain equipment like power front disc brakes and dual exhaust that all Z/28s had but none of it is unique to the Z/28.

Assume for now it is not a Z/28. If has a relatively clean rust free body that doesn't need paint or major work, power front discs, Muncie 4-speed and 12 posi axle and drives ok it is probably worth 15k or a bit more anyway. The big block doesn't help but may have resale value. As a final thought more than a few COPOs were disguised as Z/28s.

Get the VIN and info off the body tag, post it here.

[hotrod68]

The dumb guy's guide--like me!--is to look for 4-leaf rear springs. Only the Zs had them as far as I know, and that's a dead giveaway on the surface. It would also have to have front disc brakes and a Muncie 4-speed. No production '69 Zs had automatics, a/c or were convertibles. Hope this helps.

[RamAirDave]

Not exactly, hotrod68,

There are documented Zs with 5 leafs.  Not the norm, but completely possible.

Also look for the speedo cable protruding through the firewall in the area of the distributor/wiper motor, rather than near the junction block for the front wiring harness.  Thats the muncie-only location.  Wont exactly mean Z, but if its not there it will rule it out.


dave

[vinniegini]

Thanks for all the info.  I'll try and post a few pic's later this week to include the cowl tag. 

[hotrod68]

Thanks, Dave. You learn something new everyday! That's why I love this site.

[jdv69z]

Don't know if this will help, but look for long bumper guards on rear bumper also. I have seen many Camaros over the years painted and emblemed like Z/28's, but without the correct rear bumpers guards. About the only clue to a possible fake without looking under the hood.

Jimmy V

[william]

Rear bumper guards [V32] were standard on Z/28 but optional on any 1969 Camaro. Many were removed from Z/28s by owners that did not care for the appearance.

[Dave69x33]

There are lists of exterior visual clues that help you determine if it’s a Z28; however, these items can also be "clone".  In addition to the item others have noted, also check:

1.) Front disc brakes with the brake pressure switch "manifold" located under the master cylinder, and the metering valve located on the bottom right side of the master cylinder. Also look for the pressure regulator valve along the outside frame rail, under the driver’s door side of the car.  These items are not unique to Z28 but were include on them.
2.) Single 3/8" fuel line front to back with the original looking fuel line clips.
3.) The reinforcement steel plate welded to the driver’s side rear frame rail for the duel exhaust hangers.
4.) Check for evidence if the car originally had an automatic transmission.  Look how the speedometer cable routed.  Automatic trans (and the manual three speeds) ran the speedo cable out the RH side (driver’s side) of the trans up under the driver’s side front floor board between the floor board and the frame.  It runs along side the emergency break cable and retained with an olive green clip.  Automatics use the "production speedo cable hole" located near the bottom LH side of the firewall, just lower left of where the brake booster/master cylinder attaches to the firewall. (See p. 330 in the AIM).  Also look for a large 1 -1/2" hole in the forward area of the trans hump in the floor board where the automatic shifter cable with grommet was run thru.  The Muncie 4-Speed speedo cable exits the RH side of the trans and is attached to the RH side of the floor board and routed across the lower front of the firewall, in the trans tunnel area and enters the interior on the drivers side area of the tunnel near where the tunnel blends with the vertical face of the firewall (See hole piercing info in the AIM on page 9).  The speedo cable is secured to the firewall with three clips P/N 3772324 (see page 330 in AIM).  Try to look at both 4-speed cars and automatics and you will clearly see the difference.

On other more sure way to see if the "Z28" is real and if it has not been totally restored, is to look for paint pin letters on the rear bulk head sheet metal, behind the back seat and under the card board panel and rear package tray that seals the trunk area from the interior.  Many RS Z28's will be marked "X3" for the X33 option code and standard non-RS Z28's will be marked with "X7" for the "X77" base Z28 model.  This is a though one to check out without taking the car apart and potentially upsetting the owner.  If the car has been totally restored, pictures of these markings may be available to see.

Again, most all of these items can be replicated but some quick clues to look for.

Good luck with your search!

 

[JohnZ]

On other more sure way to see if the "Z28" is real and if it has not been totally restored, is to look for paint pin letters on the rear bulk head sheet metal, behind the back seat and under the card board panel and rear package tray that seals the trunk area from the interior. Many RS Z28's will be marked "X3" for the X33 option code and standard non-RS Z28's will be marked with "X7" for the "X77" base Z28 model. This is a though one to check out without taking the car apart and potentially upsetting the owner. If the car has been totally restored, pictures of these markings may be available to see.

The "X3" (X33) and "X7" (X77) don't relate to RS or non-RS; they relate to the presence/absence of the exterior Z21 Style Trim Group - X33 cars had it, X77 cars didn't.

[Ron C.]

if you want a real Z and you are going to invest a lot of money because you want a z then try to buy a matching number car,you cant lose and most likely will be happy with the real 302 motor in a car that you spent a lot of money on.Get a book on Z28s that will tell you what to look for.One such book is written by Jerry MacNeish and will give you all the info you will need.the number is 410-781-0418 to order the definitve 1969 camaro fact book.Good luck and happy hunting!