Messages

1

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 20, 2022, 04:00:51 AM »

Thought I would post an update on this old post, and my quest to verify my Vintage Racer. 
I now have 2 notarized statements- one from the wife of the first owner, and one from the mechanic that repaired it after the crash stating it was a Z28.  I also got copies from SCCA on the application for racing it, listing the car, VIN, listing it as a Z28 with the original 302 in it.  Several tech inspection sheets list it as a Z28 as well for several years when it was raced, and the VIN as well as the SCCA roll cage certification number.  All match the VIN, stamped on the body under the cowl.  The third owner found the original Muncie for it, with the VIN stamped in the case.  The manufacturing dates of it, the Rear end match as well.  The NCRS sent me their letter on when and where it was made, and the original dealer- Fred Breiden Chevrolet in Paso Robles, CA.  I also have the racing records of the past drivers, which included an experienced dirt track racer-Ron Boeltz who got his SCCA Racing license with it in 1981, after installing a 302 out of his own 69 Z28.  He went on to race a 69 Corvette in Trans Am Races in 1982-1984.  Ron still has the 69 Vette!  Oh, we also got copies of the title transfers dating back to 1971.  As we finish up, we are in the finishing stages of writing our book on our Z28 and its' adventures.   I will also include all of the mods, many of the parts, settings, adjustments, tricks we had done or did to make it a very competitive Vintage/ Historic Road Racer for SCCA/ SVRA/HRS, etc.  The original trim tag still sits undisturbed on the firewall, and all of original parts dates, casting numbers, etc. have matched up with the original paperwork we now have.  Now with 6 people who knew it when it was new or before it was wrecked, lots of State and over 50 Official SCCA Racing documentation, inspections, newspaper articles and old racing photos, I can feel comfortable it is indeed a Z28.  The confusion was likely started due to the Van Nuys plant using the smaller trim tag without the X codes.  With the production of less than 4,000 like this, midwestern Camaro enthusiasts and racers rarely if ever saw a 69 Z28 without an X code on the trim tag, even at the Chevy dealership in small town Eagle Grove, Iowa.   Thanks for everyone's help on our quest!  We have raced it a couple times on the track, it is an absolute fire breathing monster: fast, loud, and makes people smile! 

2

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 15, 2018, 04:43:21 PM »

Racerdan,

OK, so your car has 4 leaves and a BU rear?

                                                   - Warren

  Yes.  Cast dates on the center casted section show it as a 12 bolt rear end, made Jan 3rd, 1969.  The stamp shows it was assembled as a 3.73. w/positraction on Jan 20, 1969.  The car was finished at the Los Angeles plant on February 3, 1969.   It had 4 leaf springs and shackles on it. that appeared to of not been messed with.  The third owner, who bought the car in 1978 as an ex SCCA Road Racer, never drove it, but had it rebuilt with new clutches and springs (I have the actual original receipt where he had this done).  Then it was raced by another person for two or three events, and was placed in the second owners garage, and later his Morton building in storage until I bought it.  He tells me the rear end was the same one he bought with the car in 1978.  The guy who restored the car when it was wrecked in 1971 told me they used the original rear end that the car came with to race it, because there was nothing wrong with it and it did just fine in the races while he worked there.  It had drum brakes on the back, (single piston power disc brakes on the front), and the actual drums on the rear axle had small holes all the way around it in the outer edge of the drum.  I assume that was either a Chevrolet idea for racing, or the previous racer's idea to cool the drums while racing.  The brake booster was original (9204) and master cylinder too (5468309).  There was a check valve in the rear brake line outlet of the master cylinder, and also a regulator valve hidden in the rear of the driver's side frame rail, going to the rear brakes.  That is about all I know I can remember...!

3

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 15, 2018, 04:13:29 PM »

How did I get here?  Confusion, mis-directed leads and information, mistakes, hints, and intuition/hunches. I just recently found this article of our 69 exact Z28 Camaro! 

http://eaglegrove.advantage-preservation.com/Viewer/?k=bob%20wood&t=30433&i=t&by=1972&bdd=1970&d=01011972-12311972&m=between&fn=eagle_grove_eagle_usa_iowa_eagle_grove_19721102_english_19&df=1&dt=10

http://eaglegrove.advantage-preservation.com/Viewer/?k=bob%20wood&t=30433&i=t&by=1972&bdd=1970&d=01011972-12311972&m=between&fn=eagle_grove_eagle_usa_iowa_eagle_grove_19721102_english_19&df=1&dt=10

At the newspaper office, they blew up the photo, and while of poor quality, you could still make out the Z28 emblem above the edge of the front bumper, and the faint white Z28 stripes covered in mud right next to the Camaro script emblem on the front nose.

Our copies of the Camaro's registrations, each and every title in Iowa (ownership never left the State of Iowa after 1971), SCCA Racing Logbooks from late 1971 thru 1982), and photos of it all link it to this, too (racing photos show emblem on front grill, but cannot make out if it says Z28 but it is in the same exact spot as original one).  The photos of it on track link with the log book dates of each race, location, event name and date, and the race results.  Restoration photos also back up the actual info., and the hidden original VIN stamped under the cowl on the body of the car.

As I took parts off the original race car before restoration, I documented casting dates, part numbers, etc.  The Master cylinder, brake booster, engine mounting bracket, inside passenger plastic kick panel, 4 link springs, rear end, rear end assembly stamp, vin stamps, trim tag, hole for speedo cable in firewall, reinforcement plates on the rear sub frame for the dual exhaust, and the few original body parts with original paint all link it to the original Z28, made Feb 3, 1969 with its original Hugger Orange paint and white stripes.

We did an NCRS report on our VIN (same as registration, copies of all owners except the original owner in California), and it was delivered at the same city where the original owner Ken Thompson lived (Paso Robles, CA.).

Once we got this info, we found the original owner was deceased, so we used his obituary to find his direct relatives.  After numerous searches, we found a few of them, and contacted them.  Fortunately, we found many were car enthusiasts, and remembered the Z28 well. 

We also just found one cousin, who worked at Paso Robles dealership (Fred Breiden Chevrolet, dealer #50 on the NCRS website and the NCRS certified letter of manufacture, dealer delivery, order #, and date from Chevrolet records) when the Camaro was delivered!  He was a parts man there, and remembered his cousin Ken Thompson had picked it up within two days of it arriving, and was almost sure he ordered it while he was on a 30 day leave with the Marines.

We continue to contact relatives of Ken and Bob Woods (who raced it) to collect more info and stories on the car.  Ken's wife said there was a photo album of Ken and his Z28 (she and Ken met because they were both Camaro nuts, and both had Camaros.  Her Camaro was a base 67 Coupe she bought used but loved). 

Hundreds of photos from the rotisserie restoration back to where it is today (a currently prepared and competitive 1969 SCCA Vintage/ Historic Road Racer).   You can't miss the original Hugger Orange paint from the factory on the rockers, lower rear valance, etc.  You can also see in the photos the past history of the wreck in 1971, which changed the course of what was originally designed and made at the Chevrolet factory as an SCCA race car to drive on the street, to relive as its original destiny as designed as an SCCA race car to race up front on the road race courses of America!

Maybe we will get lucky, and find a few the photo album of original photos of the car when it was new.  Is the protect-o-plate and warranty book with it, still in someone's drawer with a copy of the window sticker or bill of sale?   Our search now leads us to the second wife, and Ken's children who might have it stored away.   

Meanwhile, the cousin that worked at the original dealership still lives there, and is heading there to get with them.  He is going to try to search their old boxes stored away to see if he can find the original order forms, files, etc. about the car.  The first owner's wife is trying to help us by leading the search for the photo album on the car and the first owner.  My wife and I continue to try to find the rest of the first and second owners families, to collect info, photos, and stories on it's adventures!

Wish us luck!

4

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Were 69 SS also made in CA plant?

« on: April 15, 2018, 03:25:33 PM »

We recently found an old newspaper article with photos of the Camaro both when it was wrecked and on the track.  The article, from Eagle Grove Iowa newspaper sports writer, said it was a 1969 Z28, previously owned by Ken Thompson from California, turned into an SCCA Road Racer after it was wrecked near here in 1971, and raced by Bob Wood in 1972.  It also gave some of his racing results and races for that year.

5

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Data base for Camaro Race Car?

« on: April 15, 2018, 03:19:32 PM »

We recently found a newspaper article from 1972 in the Eagle Grove Iowa newspaper, with a photo of it when it was wrecked in June of 1971 as a street car. It states it is a 1969 Z28, previously owned by Ken Thompson out of California, turned into an SCCA Road Race car, and several races it had been in in 1972.

6

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Were 69 SS also made in CA plant?

« on: April 15, 2018, 03:15:14 PM »

Here was the tag info off the radiator that originally made me think it was an SS.  But the manufacturing date does not line up with the build date of the Camaro. 

Tag= I0   UY
         00
         70     R
“10”= big block, 4 core end tank, with curved neck
“UY”= Broadcast code= COPO (big block 4 core 23 inch wide core, .16 spacing on fins) part # 3018624* Used in 1969 on manual transmission 396 air cars and 427 COPO cars only- 4 core, 23 inches wide, with .16 fin spacing.
“00”= big block manual end tank, four core only used on big block manual trans cars.
Between these two letters is the letter “F” which means it was made the month of  June.
“70”  and “R” are unknown characters and meaning is unknown.

Obvious to me know, I can see this radiator came out of another car, for its racing ventures in the 70's....

Racer Dan

7

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Data base for Camaro Race Car?

« on: April 15, 2018, 03:01:55 PM »

Well, I am full of errors!  I just found my notes I recorded in 2008 when I removed the radiator on the Camaro:
Tag= I0   UY
         00
         70     R
“10”= big block, 4 core end tank, with curved neck
“UY”= Broadcast code= COPO (big block 4 core 23 inch wide core, .16 spacing on fins) part # 3018624* Used in 1969 on manual transmission 396 air cars and 427 COPO cars only- 4 core, 23 inches wide, with .16 fin spacing.
“00”= big block manual end tank, four core only used on big block manual trans cars.
Between these two letters is the letter “F” which means it was made the month of  June.
“70”  and “R” are unknown characters and meaning is unknown.
The tag I found loose in my parts bin I took a photo of must have been from a Corvette from 25 years ago... but this is the actual info ion the radiator that came in it, I wrote it down when i removed and inspected it.  Of course the date is off, but it led me to believe it could have been an SS instead of a Z28.  But the radiator had to of been replaced with a heavier one when he raced it in the 70's...

I am guessing the radiator might still be in the barn where we stored some of the parts off the car...and the tag might still be on it.

Racer Dan

8

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Data base for Camaro Race Car?

« on: April 15, 2018, 12:37:39 AM »

Jon,

In order to race in SCCA, each driver was required to do a drivers school first.  Ron Wood, the owner/ driver went to Donnybrooke Regional/School on  5/12/72.

The first actual race he went to was at Hutchensen, KS on 5/27/72- where Ron placed 1st in Class and 1st overall as car # 18.  Shortly thereafter he started racing it as #48. 

It shows the Camaro as white for its log book and in the photo in the log book.  In disassembly of the car, the orange still shows behind the front fenders at the firewall, under the doors, in the door jams, etc.  I do not know when he repainted it, but it was red white and blue in 1974, when we got a couple of other pics of the car.  (This is the color we will eventually restore it with again).  In 1978, it was painted blue with white Z-28 stripes and with Z-28 badges. 

I have been able to determine the car was orginally out of California, was a 396 big block, with air.  I cannot determine the actual miles on the car, but I figure about 10,000 miles in California (one year), and the rest on the track racing in SCCA.

I have actually discovered I was wrong in thinking this was an A/c car, with a big block.  After years of discovery, I can now honestly clear that part up... it was NOT an A/c car.  The car was not a Big Block either.  My confusion of what I thought was a dual fuel line clip was not one, and the kick panel in pass side, along with the big block radiator being made in 1970 sure cleared up my thinking it might have been n A/c car.  The firewall cut out where the heater defrost box went was not factory, it was cut out by hand making me think it was for an A/C box.  Thanks!

9

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Were 69 SS also made in CA plant?

« on: April 15, 2018, 12:28:27 AM »

If the complete drive line survived the crash it could still be out there somewhere...

It was used in some serious SCCA Road Racing, for many years.  While the driveline survived the crash according to Geroge, the engine and trans did not survive the racing!  The engine lasted for the 1972 season, GM gave the dealer a new 302 to race with, so not sure where the block went after that.  The trans had to of been replaced, I got it with a rock crusher, if I remember right it was out of a 1969 Malibu or Chevelle, and I sold it a couple years ago.

10

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Were 69 SS also made in CA plant?

« on: April 15, 2018, 12:24:22 AM »

You sure about it being a Z/28? A Z/28 would NOT have had dual fuel lines.

Today, I dug out my Camaro assembly manual and found the clip.  it was used on single lines, too.  Page 125, part labeled "4", their part # 3886522.  But I was again confused for a few minutes when I read your post!  Thank you for pointing that out to me!

11

Decoding/Numbers / Re: Were 69 SS also made in CA plant?

« on: April 15, 2018, 12:13:14 AM »

I found the clip that holds two lines in the Camaro assembly manual.   Page 125, UPC8  B3.

The part is numbered 4.  It is Gm part number 3886522, called a clip.

It shows in the drawing only one fuel line, but the clip clearly has two humps for two lines.  CAll me stupid, but it sure LOOKS like a two line clip, but I guess it only held one!

Remember, I am a novice!  I am here asking and learning!

12

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 15, 2018, 12:08:14 AM »

[quote author=KurtS link=topic=16402.msg148411#msg148411 date=1523740921

Non-Z cars could have a BU axle, just had to order it. Most are SS's, but a few are in non-Z, non-SS cars.
[/quote]

I had no idea!  I thought only Z28's had BU axles with 4 leaf springs!   Just proves I am not educated on this stuff!  that is why I turned to this forum.

Racer Dan

13

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 14, 2018, 11:39:02 PM »

In the other thread, he states it has clamps for two fuel lines. That means it wasn't a Z28.

Non-Z cars could have a BU axle, just had to order it. Most are SS's, but a few are in non-Z, non-SS cars.

Sorry, Kurt, my error.  One of the reasons why I want an expert to help me.  I am a novice at this.  I posted just now on the fuel clip, finding it in my recently acquired assembly manual.  Page 125, UPC8, B3.  It is number 4 on the drawing, part # 3886522.  Still looks like a two line fuel clip to me.  Call me stupid.  I could be wrong, the clip could not of been original.  But I thought it was.  I am 85% sure this is my clip.  Is this for two lines?

14

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 14, 2018, 11:34:48 PM »

OK, so after the new info you learned and updated here and in the older post, can you confirm:
- what previously made you think the car had A/C?
- if it did have two fuel lines? (if so that would indicate QuadraJet carb, and not a Z/28).

Sorry, I am a novice at this Camaro stuff.  I can easily get excited when I stumble across things, not knowing much.  Your two questions:
I was told it had A/C by the guy who was in the accident with the owner in 1971.  Then I figured the Big Block radiator told me it had to be an A/C car too, Later I figured out the manufacturing date of it... the date on the tag on it said it was actually made in June, of 1970.  I still have the tag off it and took a photo of it, not sure how to post it.  But when I removed the firewall plate installed for SCCA racing in 1972 to cover for the heater box, I was expecting only two small holes if it did not have A/C, for lines going to the heater core inside the car.  The firewall had a large cut out where the air box/ heater core went and it was patched over.  Can I send you a photo or post one of it?  It is a big cut out, and since the A/C box was so big, I figured it had to be A/C with the radiator.  I did find the pass side kick panel still in place.  I looked it up, it had the plastic grill in it, and no opening like that for the A/C cars.  My error.  Corvettes are so much easier, I know them by heart.... 

As for the dual lines for the carb, I found one fuel line clip.  The clip was formed to hold two lines.  I assumed it was original, but there was no current fuel line there.  I later bought an Assembly manual for Camaros, and found what I think it was on page 125, I am guessing it is the same one I found- labeled #4- part # 3886522.  But it only shows it holding one line, not two in the assembly manual.  So, my error being a novice when I posted, and still not much more than a novice now! 

15

Decoding/Numbers / Re: need 1969 Los Angeles Z28 expert...

« on: April 14, 2018, 10:29:36 PM »

Just to give a status report:Our Z28 Camaro is completely restored back to its orioginal colors, but configured for it's Vintage/ Historic racing, with SCCA/SVRA.  It is currently qualified for racing in the Vintage Trans Am series races in both of these groups, with all of the current safety updates, and modifications.  For the purists:  DON"T LOOK! 

I have a Facebook site, Dan Harrington, Des Moines, IA.  On it I posted a lot of our documentation of the car.  Feel free to take a look!

On of my albums has 29 photos, some of it on the tracks of the 31 SCCA races it competed in.  Fortunately, with so few owners, it is much easier for me to verify the few parts on the car that are original.  Such as the Rear end, the third owner and I are good friends, and he owned it since 1979.  I have recieipts for the rebuilt rear end for 1979 or 80 if I recall the date correctly.   Knowing it was not replaced in 71, and still there in 79, and still there when I bought it.  But we have lots of other work to do, and hopefully more track photos to find!

Our Z28 was Midwest Division SCCA Champion car in 1974 in A Sedan class, second place in 1973.  Our goal is to get it back on track, hopefully in a Vintage Trans Am Series with SVRA. 

Racer Dan